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It's Thoreback Thursday right here on Dogma Debate. I'm Neil deGrasse Tyson. Hey, I'm Adam Carolla. Hi, my name is Penn Gillette. Not only listening, I'm a guest. I'm a Penn and Teller, and I am the fourth listener. And I am the fourth listener. And that must make me at least the fourth listener. To keep our three listeners coming back,

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So I want to start with the big one that first really jumped out at me as a believer when I was, as a kid I remember doing,, they gave me yarn and apparently you can do it with

rubber bands as well. And you can do this thing and make what's called Jacob's Ladder. And I remember

asking, like, why would there be a ladder? What was the ladder thing about? And my Bible study

teacher told me that it had something to do with, you know, Jacob's Ladder so could climb up to heaven in the firmament. And then again, being an inquisitive kid, I was like, what's a firmament? And they were like, well, you know, the dome over the earth. And I went, dome. And I was just like, and I'm walking outside and I'm looking and I'm going that's the

...