Welcome back to the Lincoln Project. I'm your host, Reed Gaillan. Today, I'm joined by

Senior Advisor to the Lincoln Project, an author of It Was All Alive, now available in

paperback Stuart Stevens. Stu, good to have you. Great to be here. Also on the show

today is legendary democratic strategist and also a Senior Advisor to the Lincoln Project

and host of that trippy show available on all your favorite podcast apps. It's Joe

Trippie. Joe, thanks for coming. Great to be with you guys. So I want to ask a small

question today. How is it that we get our friends who are allies of democracy, our

friends on the democratic side of the aisle, our friends in the media, maybe even our friends

in corporate America to understand the fight that we're facing today? How is it that it's

so difficult for us to get otherwise rational, thoughtful, smart people to understand that

the fight we face between now and a year from today is not the fight of 20 years ago,

40 years ago. Maybe it's 1860. Maybe it's the 1880s. But Joe, let me start with you.

As someone who came up in democratic politics, what do you think is a barrier to getting

folks on the democratic side of the aisle to really focus on what we've got going on

here in front of us? Well, we talked about this before. It is just a failure of imagination.

People cannot imagine that that's the fight. I mean, it's just so tough for the press

corporate America. And yeah, Democrats, particularly those in Washington, it's that normalcy bias

of thinking that everything's still normal when it's obviously not. But I think it's just

complete failure of imagination. Even though the same people thought couldn't imagine Trump

being elected in the first place, they couldn't imagine. None of us could believe the January

6th could happen in America. It did all these things that we could not imagine happened.

And now still that has not woken people up to what this fight's really all about. It's

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