740: How to Lead Organizational Change, with Michael Bungay Stanier

Coaching for Leaders

Dave Stachowiak

Education, Business, Management, Self-improvement, Careers

4.8 • 1.6K Ratings

🗓️ 30 June 2025

⏱️ 39 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Michael Bungay Stanier: Change Signal
Michael Bungay Stanier is best known for The Coaching Habit, the best-selling coaching book of the century and recognized as a classic. He was a Rhodes Scholar, and was recently awarded the coaching prize by Thinkers50. He's now the host of the new Change Signal podcast.

If you’re doing change right, it’s going to be messy. In this conversation, Michael Bungay Stanier returns to show us where to start, the key mindsets to have, and the first steps for getting traction.
Key Points

If you’re doing change right, it’s going to be messy.
Before you remove a fence, figure out why it’s there.
Take inspiration from Emily Dickinson: “Tell all the truth but tell it slant.”
Beware giving lip service to the emotional realities of change and then moving forward without really addressing them.
Strategy is a living conversation. Run experiments. Fire bullets before cannonballs.
Motivation is a critical factor in change. Better to be less efficient and have people with you than to force compliance with a “perfect” plan.

Emily Dickinson:
Tell all the truth but tell it slant —
Success in Circuit lies
Too bright for our infirm Delight
The Truth's superb surprise
As Lightning to the Children eased
With explanation kind
The Truth must dazzle gradually
Or every man be blind —
Resources Mentioned

Change Signal podcast hosted by Michael Bungay Stanier
The Coaching Habit* by Michael Bungay Stanier

Related Episodes

Engaging People Through Change, with Cassandra Worthy (episode 571)
How to Approach a Reorg, with Claire Hughes Johnson (episode 621)
How to Prevent a Team From Repeating Mistakes, with Robert “Cujo” Teschner (episode 660)

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Transcript

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0:00.0	If you're doing change right, it's going to be messy.
0:03.2	In this episode, Michael Bungay-Stanyer returns to show us where to start the key mindsets to have and the first steps for getting traction.
0:11.5	This is Coaching for Leaders, Episode 740.
0:16.1	Produced by Innovate Learning, Maximizing Human Potential.
0:30.4	Greetings to you from Orange County, California. This is Coaching for Leaders, and I'm your host,
0:37.2	Dave Stahofiak. Leaders are born, they're made. And this weekly show helps you discover leadership wisdom through
0:38.8	insightful conversations. John Cotter said many years ago that management answers the question of
0:47.2	complexity. Leadership answers the question of change. One of the biggest responsibilities we have as leaders is thinking about change,
0:56.7	planning for change, and of course, doing change. It is hard, it is messy, it is complex, and
1:04.8	there's also some really wonderful things we can do to help change go better for ourselves,
1:10.0	for our organizations,
1:10.8	and for the people we support. And I am so glad to welcome back. Someone who's been on the show
1:15.6	many times over the years has helped us navigate so much in how we communicate with people,
1:20.5	how we coach, and of course change as well. I'm so pleased to have back Michael Bungay-Stanyer.
1:25.3	He's best known for the coaching habit, the best-selling
1:28.2	coaching book of the century and recognized as a classic. He was a Rhodes Scholar and recently
1:33.6	awarded the coaching prize by Thinkers 50, and he's now the host of the new Change Signal podcast.
1:40.5	Michael, welcome back. Always a pleasure to have you one. Dave, it is a pleasure.
1:45.5	I love talking to you.
1:46.5	I love when we met in person and hung out on the West Coast.
1:49.3	And I love these, look, the only reason I write books and I start things is just in the hope that I get re-invited back into your podcast.
1:56.8	So, you know, that plan's working out pretty well for me.
	...

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