739: What Leaders Should Learn from Taylor Swift, with Kevin Evers

Coaching for Leaders

Dave Stachowiak

Education, Business, Management, Self-improvement, Careers

4.8 • 1.6K Ratings

🗓️ 23 June 2025

⏱️ 39 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Kevin Evers: There’s Nothing Like This
Kevin Evers is a Senior Editor at Harvard Business Review. Passionate about shaping groundbreaking research and amplifying pioneering ideas, he has edited bestselling and award-winning books on high performance, creativity, innovation, digital disruption, marketing, and strategy. He is the author of There’s Nothing Like This: The Strategic Genius of Taylor Swift*.

You may love her music. You may not. You may think she’s a business genius…or perhaps no. But one thing is for sure, you cannot ignore Taylor Swift. In this conversation, Kevin and I explore Swift’s strategic approach and what every leader can learn from her success.
Key Points

Swift knows exactly her “job to be done” and delivers on it consistently.
Swift treats her fans’ emotions and experiences with respect and they respond in kind.
Andy Grove famously said that only the paranoid survive. It’s one of many traits that helps Swift stay successful.
Swift’s transition to pop was promotion-focused rather than prevention-focused to a promotion-focused. She led the story of her transformation.
Not only is Swift clear on her vision, but she regularly reflects on the difficult steps to get there.
Swift is a remarkable example of antifragility. Not only does she withstand stress and shocks, they make her stronger.

Resources Mentioned

There’s Nothing Like This: The Strategic Genius of Taylor Swift* by Kevin Evers

Interview Notes
Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).
Related Episodes

Doing Better Than Zero Sum-Thinking, with Renée Mauborgne (episode 641)
The Reason People Make Buying Decisions, with Marcus Collins (episode 664)
How to Keep Improving, with Maurice Ashley (episode 697)

Discover More
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Transcript

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0:00.0	You may love her music. You may not. You may think she's a business genius, or perhaps no. But one thing is for sure, you cannot ignore her. In this episode, what every leader can learn from Taylor Swift. This is Coaching for Leaders, episode 739. Produced by Innovate Learning, maximizing human potential.
0:27.9	Greetings to you from Orange County, California.
0:31.3	This is Coaching for Leaders, and I'm your host, Dave Stahoviac.
0:36.3	Leaders are born, their main. And this weekly show helps you discover
0:40.8	leadership wisdom through insightful conversations. Taylor Swift is a powerhouse as a musician,
0:48.6	as a brand, and absolutely as a businesswoman. There's so much that leaders across all industries can learn from
0:57.1	her example, what she's done well, some of the missteps she's made along the way,
1:01.4	and how we can lead more effectively, perhaps being inspired a bit by her work. And I'm so pleased
1:07.6	to welcome someone who's done such incredible work of looking at her career and looking at it through the lens of strategy.
1:15.0	I'm so pleased to welcome Kevin Evers. He is senior editor at Harvard Business Review.
1:20.7	Kevin is passionate about shaping, groundbreaking research, and amplifying pioneering ideas.
1:26.5	He has edited bestselling and award-winning books on
1:29.0	high performance, creativity, innovation, digital disruption, marketing, and strategy.
1:35.5	He's the author of There's Nothing Like This, the Strategic Genius of Taylor Swift. Kevin,
1:42.2	such a pleasure to have you on.
1:46.6	Dave, thank you so much for having me. I'm looking forward to this.
1:53.6	Me too. And because I discovered very quickly in reading the book that you and I share something very similar in that our daughters are both of pre-teenage. They're both Swifties.
1:59.8	And as I was thinking about her appeal, Taylor Swift's
2:05.2	appeal, that I came to one of the concepts you talk about in the book from Clayton Christensen,
2:12.1	and he had this beautiful concept of a job to be done. I'm wondering if you could share a bit of that concept
2:20.1	with those who haven't heard it before because I think she's a really fascinating example of this.
2:25.6	I think so too. I think this really explains what Taylor does really well. So job to be done
	...

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