734: The Path to More Joy in Work and Life, with Judith Joseph
Coaching for Leaders
Dave Stachowiak
4.8 • 1.6K Ratings
🗓️ 19 May 2025
⏱️ 40 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
Judith Joseph is a Columbia-trained psychiatrist and the founder of and chief investigator at Manhattan Behavioral Medicine, New York City’s premier clinical research site. She’s also a clinical assistant professor in child and adolescent psychiatry at NYU Langone Medical Center in Manhattan, and chairwoman of the Women in Medicine Board at Columbia University’s Vagelos College of Physicians and Surgeons. She is the author of High Functioning: Overcome Your Hidden Depression and Reclaim Your Joy*.
When we think about successful leaders, we often admire those who are loving towards others, can tolerate painful times, and know how to delay gratification. Those are all such important traits – and when we overindex on them, can become counter-productive. In this conversation, (Judith and I explore) when it’s no longer working and how to find the joy again.
Key Points
Many people who are experiencing high-functioning depression don’t realize it.
High-functioning depression is often triggering by trauma. That can can be major trauma, but it can also be more common forms of trauma like divorce, workplace conflict, legal issues, and many more.
Anhedonia is one of the most common ways high-functioning depression reveals itself. It looks like not seeking out joyful activities and also not experiencing joy in activities that used to bring joy.
Masochism is the other common way high-functioning depression shows up. It manifests as a pattern of self-defeating, people-pleasing behavior.
The “superpowers” that come with high-functioning depression are viewed by others and society as strengths. However, over-indexing on being loving, tolerating pain, and delayed gratification are counter-productive over time.
Validation is a starting point for healing. Each person is unique and sometimes it’s helpful to begin with movies or other creative works that help you recognize yourself.
Resources Mentioned
High Functioning: Overcome Your Hidden Depression and Reclaim Your Joy* by Judith Joseph
Interview Notes
Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).
Related Episodes
What to Do With Your Feelings, with Lori Gottlieb (episode 438)
The Mindset Leaders Need to Address Burnout, with Christina Maslach (episode 608)
Transcend Leadership Struggles Through Your Strengths, with Lisa Cummings (episode 692)
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Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | When we think about successful leaders, we admire those who are loving towards others can tolerate |
| 0:06.4 | painful times and know how to delay gratification. Those are all such important traits. |
| 0:13.2 | And when we overindex on them, can become counterproductive. In this episode, when it's no longer |
| 0:20.2 | working and how to find the joy again. |
| 0:23.4 | This is Coaching for Leaders, Episode 734. Produced by Innovate Learning, maximizing human potential. |
| 0:36.9 | Greetings to you from Orange County, California. This is Coaching for Leaders, and I'm your host, Dave Stahoviac. |
| 0:45.0 | Leaders are born. They're made. And this weekly show helps you discover leadership wisdom through insightful conversations. |
| 0:53.4 | If you've been listening to this show for any |
| 0:54.9 | length of time, you know that personal leadership is one of the things that I think a lot about |
| 0:59.6 | and I think is really important for leaders of all kinds. And when it comes to personal |
| 1:04.9 | leadership, one key component of that is our mental health. How what we're doing at taking |
| 1:09.8 | care of ourselves of noticing the things |
| 1:12.1 | that aren't working and being able to address them in a proactive way? And oftentimes when we |
| 1:17.4 | think of things like depression, we have a mental model of what that looks like. But we don't |
| 1:23.3 | necessarily think about all the ways that may manifest. Today, I'm so glad to welcome an expert |
| 1:28.6 | that's going to help us to look at a different aspect that I don't think we often think about. |
| 1:33.8 | And our hope is that we help to support the mental health, not only of you, but the people |
| 1:39.0 | around you as well. I'm so pleased to welcome Judith Joseph to the show. She is a Columbia-trained psychiatrist |
| 1:45.3 | and founder and chief investigator at Manhattan Behavioral Medicine, New York City's |
| 1:50.6 | premier clinical research site. She's also a clinical assistant professor in child and adolescent |
| 1:56.0 | psychiatry at NYU Langone Medical Center and Manhattan, and chairwoman of the Women and Medicine Board |
| 2:02.7 | at Columbia University's Badgillus College of Physicians and Surgeons. |
... |
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