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This is Lindsay Smith-Rogers. Why aren't condoms as ubiquitous as they once were in the prevention of HIV and STIs?

Today, Stephanie Desmond talks to Dr. Steve Goodrow, an HIV expert at the University of Washington,

whose research shows that in the era of medications like prep, condom use is down among gay and bisexual men,

and what public health can do to reverse the trend.

Let's listen.

Steve Goodrow, thanks so much for joining me.

Thank you very much for having me, Stephanie.

So today we're going to talk about condoms.

They seem to be coming an overlooked prevention tool for HIV and, of course, STI, sexually transmitted diseases.

What's the situation?

I would say the situation is complicated, right?

And I would give, you know, some context here, which is I'm a 51-year-old gay man.

I've lived through most of the HIV epidemic,

right? And for a long time, condoms was kind of all we had. And that's what gay men themselves were, you know, supporting in each other and using. That's what public health was pushing.

And then along came PrEP, which is a, you know, medicine that people can take in order to prevent getting HIV. And then along came PrEP, which is a medicine that people can take in order to prevent getting HIV.

And then along came the awareness that anyone who is living with HIV and is virally suppressed, they can't transmit.

So that was another great development. So we had these two amazing developments that came along in quick succession. So then the

conversation shifted. Everyone was very excited about all those. And now it's been about 10 years

...