Hello, welcome to the podcast, this is Owen Jones.

Gambling addiction is a huge problem in this country.

It wrecks so many lives, including the lives of young people and indeed children.

Now lots of people and companies have struggled during the pandemic, but gambling companies

are making a packet from online gambling.

I want to talk to Max R. Cousin and James Grimes, they're both former gambling addicts

to and campaigners, and they tell me how they were driven to the very edge by their addiction,

how the industry exploits the vulnerable, how cosmetic reforms have made little difference,

and how the worst place for emergency has allowed online gambling to thrive.

Now if you want to support the podcast, do support us on patreon.com for slash Owen Jones

for all the support function, think it's five stars in a view, if you're feeling so inclined,

and with that, enjoy the podcast.

So thanks for joining me, both of you, let's just start with your experiences.

So Matt, you were 16 when you started gambling, so just tell us a bit about that.

Yeah, started gambling in betting shops. This is back in 2006 on fixed on betting terminals,

which were machines that you could bet up to a hundred pounds every 20 seconds on, and they

offered high speed, high stakes roulette in high street venues, which were obviously very accessible.

I wasn't ideal when I went in, so I was on the road, and yeah, these machines are highly addictive,

about between 40 and 50% of the people that used them, experienced some degree of gambling

related harm. So yeah, I was involved with the campaign to reduce the maximum stake down to

two pounds of spin, and that came into force in 2019. Thankfully, when I was addicted to gambling,

internet gambling and smartphones weren't really around, because I think if that was the case,

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