704: Love is All We Need + Moderate Churches with Ryan Burge
The Holy Post
Phil Vischer
4.5 • 4.4K Ratings
🗓️ 21 January 2026
⏱️ 87 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
Over the last 30 years, the number of Americans who say they highly value patriotism, religion, community, and family has dropped dramatically. At the same time, the number of Americans who care about making more money has gone up. Phil, Kaitlyn, and Skye discuss David Brooks' new article about the culture's shift toward autonomy and away from loving attachments, and how Christians can begin rebuilding their social muscles. Sociologist and former pastor, Ryan Burge, is back to discuss why the political polarization of Christianity is hurting both the church and democracy. Also this week, why small houses are better for your soul, and monkeys are missing in St. Louis—or are they?
Holy Post Plus:
Ad-Free Version of this Episode:
https://www.patreon.com/posts/148707266/
Bonus Interview with Ryan Burge:
https://www.patreon.com/posts/148694023/
0:00 - Show Starts
3:38 - Theme Song
4:45 - Sponsor - Poncho - If you've been looking for the perfect shirt—something breathable, fits great, feels even better, and stands out in a good way—give Poncho a try. Get $10 off your first order by using this link: https://www.ponchooutdoors.com/holypost
5:12 - Sponsor - Tyndale - The Life Application Study Bible is here to give you resources to help you understand why scripture matters and how it applies today! Check it out now at:
7:00 - The Monkeys are Loose in St. Louis!
15:24 - David Brooks on Love
38:00 - Are You Socially Muscular?
50:33 - Sponsor - BetterHelp - This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at https://www.betterhelp.com/HOLYPOST and get 10% off your first month!
51:30 - Sponsor - PolicyGenius - Secure your family's tomorrow so you have peace of mind today. Go to https://www.policygenius.com/HOLYPOST to find the right life insurance for you
52:34 - Interview
55:34 - Number of Christians Holding Steady
1:00:23 - Do Revivals Need to be Inside the Church?
1:09:38 - What is a Moderate Congregation?
1:17:50 - Evangelicalism Became Fundamentalism
1:24:00 - End Credits
Links Mentioned in News Segment:
Monkeys! On the Loose!
https://www.nytimes.com/2026/01/10/us/monkeys-loose-st-louis.html
We're Living Through the Great Detachment:
https://www.nytimes.com/2026/01/02/opinion/americans-marriage-loneliness-love.html
Elizabeth Oldfield on Social Muscles:
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/12/24/opinion/community-housing-friendship.html
Other Resources:
The Vanishing Church: How the Hollowing Out of Moderate Congregations Is Hurting Democracy, Faith, and Us (Why the Culture War Led to Polarization and What We Can Do About it) by Ryan Burge: https://amzn.to/4r1rbKL
Holy Post website: https://www.holypost.com/
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Holy Post Merch Store: https://www.holypost.com/shop
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Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | Welcome to the Holy Post. Over the last 30 years, the number of Americans who say they highly value patriotism, religion, community, and family has dropped dramatically. At the same time, the number of Americans who care about making more money has gone up. So today, Phil, Caitlin, and I discussed David Brooks' new article about the culture shift toward autonomy and away from loving |
| 0:21.6 | attachments, and how Christians can begin to rebuild their social muscles. |
| 0:26.3 | Then sociologists and former pastor Ryan Burge is back to discuss why the political polarization |
| 0:31.6 | of Christianity is hurting both the church and democracy. |
| 0:36.2 | Also this week, why are smaller houses better for your |
| 0:39.2 | soul and monkeys are missing in St. Louis? Or are they? Before we jump in, we've got some |
| 0:45.1 | great new content exclusively for Holy Post Plus subscribers this week, including a bonus interview with |
| 0:50.6 | Ryan Burge about how Americans are a lot less divided than the media and our |
| 0:55.0 | politics would suggest. And Caitlin and I have a great new episode of getting schooled, |
| 1:00.0 | plus there's a new Skypot episode with me and Drew Dick, where we discuss the surprising |
| 1:04.0 | news about Philip Yancey. And just for fun, we've got a video where Caitlin tries traditional |
| 1:09.4 | Chicago foods now that she's officially |
| 1:11.5 | one of us. Of course, Holy Post Plus subscribers also get access to much, much more, including |
| 1:17.3 | archives of rich theological and biblical content, special pod series, bonus interviews with guests, |
| 1:23.6 | the Holy Post Book Club, and a lot more. So come join the incredible community of Holy Posters, grow in your faith, and support the creation |
| 1:31.4 | of more faithful, pro-neighbor Christian content by signing up for Holy Post Plus today. |
| 1:36.7 | You can do that at holypost.com. |
| 1:39.4 | Here is episode 704. |
| 1:42.2 | Hey there, welcome back to the Holy Post podcast. |
| 1:44.8 | This is a special recording because next week is holiday, Monday, Martin Luther King Day. |
| 1:50.2 | That's right, right? |
| 1:51.3 | Yes. |
... |
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