7. Caverly Morgan: "I Am Not This Voice. I Am Not This Narrative."
People I (Mostly) Admire
Freakonomics Radio + Stitcher
4.6 • 2K Ratings
🗓️ 14 February 2026
⏱️ 39 minutes
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| 0:00.0 | A student of mine came to speak at a school board meeting. |
| 0:05.8 | I didn't know what he was going to say, but I've never forgotten it. |
| 0:08.0 | He said, mindful studies gave me the tools so I could save my life. |
| 0:13.3 | So these are the tools that give teens a very concrete way to move through the world with less suffering, with a deeper sense of knowing who they are and the capacity to deal with the inner critic, the voice that most of us don't ever even question. |
| 0:32.5 | I'm so excited to talk today with Cowherly Morgan. She's quite different than the typical guest I have in |
| 0:38.2 | this show, and that she's devoted her life to spirituality. She spent eight years living in complete silence |
| 0:44.3 | in a Zen Monastery, and since she left the monastery, she's done many interesting things, but the one that |
| 0:49.4 | really caught my attention is a program called Peace in Schools that teaches mindfulness skills to high school students. |
| 0:55.8 | I had a chance to observe that program firsthand, and I was so impressed that I immediately |
| 1:00.0 | signed up to be a donor. Welcome to people I mostly admire with Steve Levitt. |
| 1:07.8 | Now, I've only talked with Cavalry a few times at length, but I have to say, every time I walked away from the conversation, I felt changed, I felt improved, I felt happy. |
| 1:18.3 | So I really hope that today's conversation will be in that same spirit. I'm not quite sure, Calvally, how to introduce you. |
| 1:37.9 | So I just want to start with a story I've heard that I think says a lot about who you are. |
| 1:42.4 | You were leading a retreat retreat and a mosquito was buzzing |
| 1:46.4 | around you and you waved your hand, chewing the mosquito away, but it was persistent and it kept |
| 1:52.4 | on hovering around you. And this went on apparently for about 30 seconds. And then finally you just |
| 1:57.1 | said, oh, well, let's get this over with. And you stood still and the mosquito landed |
| 2:02.3 | on your cheek and it took a healthy dose of your blood until it finally was satisfied and it flew |
| 2:08.9 | away. And you went back to your lecture without any comment. Do you understand how unusual that |
| 2:15.6 | behavior is? Well, I've not even recalled that experience until you said it. |
| 2:23.1 | And I do recognize that what's unusual in our world today is for us to have such an interest in inquiry. |
| 2:37.0 | So when you say inquiry, I think most people wouldn't think of a mosquito sucking their blood as inquiry. |
... |
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