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I'm John Dutz with Govert Shilling, a wonderful storyteller about the search for something we're not going to find.

But the search is the joy. 100 years from now, 200 years from now, they'll know a much more about where we were right and where we were wrong.

Govert is giving you the best right now that exists in the universe about the search for the universe that we're searching for.

And we come now to the cosmic microwave background and what that tells us about dark matter and about dark energy and how we need it.

The cosmic microwave background as everybody knows is something that was found in the late 20th century by looking at the sky and saying what is this buzz?

Like radio fuzz in the backgrounds that's left over from the very beginning.

That tells us that the universe was.

Well, the way I think of it is the universe was flat when it started.

Is that right? Govert? It wasn't it didn't have dimensions. It was flat.

Yeah, it was it was in a sense flat in a sense that it was very smooth.

No large scale curvature by by off face.

So the main thing of this cosmic microwave background is that it's the last.

Well, it's actually the only signal that we have from very soon after the big bang, only a few hundred thousand years.

So see all this light in the universe that we can study.

And when we study this microwave background with deck radio telescopes here on the ground and with satellites in space.

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