681: Strategically Small Churches with Brandon O'Brien
The Holy Post
Phil Vischer
4.6 • 4.1K Ratings
🗓️ 6 August 2025
⏱️ 81 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
A whites-only community has launched in Arkansas under the legal guise of a “private membership association.” The founders claim it’s about preserving culture, but Skye and Phil aren’t buying it. Then, Brent Leatherwood, head of the Southern Baptist Convention’s public policy arm, has resigned after years of pressure from hardline conservatives. What does his departure reveal about the denomination’s political realignment? And, this week’s guest is Brandon O’Brien, author of The Strategically Small Church. As American Christianity grapples with shrinking attendance and fading influence, O’Brien offers a compelling vision for why small congregations might be not just inevitable, but essential. Also Phil learns way too much about penguin poop.
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0:00 - Show Starts
3:30 - Theme Song
3:50 - Sponsor - Sundays Dog Food - Get 40% off your first order of Sundays. Go to https://www.SundaysForDogs.com/HOLYPOST or use code HOLYPOST at checkout.
4:45 - Sponsor - Hiya Health - Go to https://www.hiyahealth.com/HOLYPOST to receive 50% off your first order
6:15 - Penguin Poop Saves the World?
15:50 - Whites-Only Community in Arkansas?
28:47 - SBC Commission President Steps Down!
43:48 - Sponsor - Blueland - Get up to 25% off your first order by going to https://www.Blueland.com/HOLYPOST
44:55 - Sponsor - BetterHelp - This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at https://www.betterhelp.com/HOLYPOST and get 10% off your first month
46:05 - Sponsor - Church at the Crossroads - How should churches respond to the crisis in Gaza? Join a conference to break the silence. Go to https://www.churchatthecrossroads.com and use code HOLYPOST for 20% off!
47:21 - Interview
51:09 - Appetite for Small Churches?
59:00 - Beholden to Budget
1:09:15 - Unanxious
1:20:46 - End Credits
Links from News Segment:
All White Community in Arkansas:
Brent Leatherwood Steps Down:
Other Resources:
The Strategically Small Church: Intimate, Authentic, and Effective by Brandon J. O’Brien: https://a.co/d/fgdjXcQ
Holy Post website: https://www.holypost.com/
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Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | Welcome to the Holy Post. With Sky and Phil at the Okoboji Bible conference and Caitlin's still unpacking from her big move to Wheaton, |
| 0:07.8 | you're left with me, producer Mike, to welcome you to the show this week. Not to worry, though, |
| 0:12.8 | Phil and Sky were still able to record an episode before they left town. A White's only community has launched in Arkansas under the legal guise of a private membership association. |
| 0:23.7 | The founders claim it's about preserving culture, but Sky and Phil aren't so sure. |
| 0:29.1 | Then, Brent Leatherwood, head of the Southern Baptist Convention's public policy arm, |
| 0:33.6 | has resigned after years of pressure from hardline conservatives. |
| 0:37.2 | What does his departure reveal about |
| 0:39.1 | the denomination's political realignment and whether theological orthodoxy still matters if it doesn't |
| 0:45.2 | align with Maga? And this week's guest is Brandon O'Brien, author of The Strategically Small Church. |
| 0:52.3 | As American Christianity grapples with shrinking attendance and fading influence, |
| 0:56.5 | O'Brien offers a compelling vision for why small congregations might not just be inevitable, |
| 1:02.2 | but essential. |
| 1:03.4 | He and Sky talk about the problems of the church growth movement and why pastors need to rethink |
| 1:08.7 | how to define success. |
| 1:10.8 | Also, Phil learns way too much about penguin poop. |
| 1:15.8 | One quick announcement before we start the show, we just released Sky's latest chapter of his new book, |
| 1:21.3 | The World Born in You. As a reminder, Sky's releasing one chapter a month until December |
| 1:26.5 | for Holy Post Plus subscribers at $10 a month or higher. |
| 1:30.8 | Now, as someone who has followed Sky for a long time and has read many of his books, let me just tell you, |
| 1:36.6 | this might be my favorite book of his yet. |
| 1:39.4 | It has been fascinating to learn more about his relationship with his diverse family, the death of his |
| 1:45.5 | brother at a young age, and his journey of faith, all while he ties it to the story of |
... |
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