672: Gender Worship Wars & the Joy of Being Cultural Outsiders with Patrick Miller
The Holy Post
Phil Vischer
4.6 • 4.1K Ratings
🗓️ 4 June 2025
⏱️ 92 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
In the past, debates over worship styles were often marked by generational differences; however, a new article suggests that this is changing. For Gen Z, worship preferences may be dividing along gender lines instead. For younger Christians, is CCM from Venus and liturgy from Mars? Drew Dyck joins Skye and Kaitlyn to discuss the evidence, the implications, and the solution for the worship gender divide. Then, Kaitlyn interviews Patrick Miller about his new book with co-author Keith Simon, “Joyful Outsiders.” He says there are six different ways we can respond to the loss of Christian cultural power, but all of them should be marked with joy rather than fear or anger. Also this week—listeners react to our criticism of “asking Jesus into your heart,” and pigeons on a plane.
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Bonus Segment:
https://www.patreon.com/posts/130626611/
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https://www.patreon.com/posts/130628699/
0:00 - Show Starts
2:55 - Theme Song
3:18 - Sponsor - BetterHelp - This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at https://www.betterhelp.com/HOLYPOST and get 10% off your first month
4:25 - Sponsor - Blueland - Get up to 25% off your first order by going to https://www.Blueland.com/HOLYPOST
5:36 - Animal News
13:07 - Jesus in Your Heart Response
25:27 - The Gen Z Worship War
36:23 - Low Church to High Church
51:50 - Sponsor - AG1 - Heavily researched, thoroughly purity-tested, and filled with stuff you need. Go to https://www.drinkag1.com/HOLYPOST
53:06 - Sponsor - World Relief: The Path - Get your FREE prayer guide: Prayers for Such a Time as This. If you want to go beyond prayer, you can also learn more about joining The Path as a monthly partner with World Relief! https://www.worldrelief.org/holypost
54:15 - Interview
55:55- What Does it Mean to Be Joyful Outsiders?
1:00:20 - Are Christians Always Outsiders?
1:14:20 - Prophets and Hope
1:20:08 - Approaching Joyful Living
1:31:00 - End Credits
Links from News Segment:
Pigeons on a Plane!
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/delta-flight-erupts-chaos-pigeons-fly-main-cabin-rcna209400
Gen Z Gender Worship War:
https://www.christianitytoday.com/2025/05/gen-z-worship-war-men-women-ccm-liturgy-tradition/
Other Resources:
Joyful Outsiders: Six Ways to Live Like Jesus in a Disorienting Culture: https://a.co/d/9ouoDCT
Read the Introduction to Skye’s new book and sign up to Holy Post Plus to follow along as the book is written: holypost.com/book
Holy Post website: https://www.holypost.com/
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Transcript
Click on a timestamp to play from that location
| 0:00.0 | Welcome to the Holy Post. |
| 0:02.0 | In the past, debates over worship styles were usually marked by generational differences, |
| 0:07.0 | but a new article says that Gen Z is changing this, |
| 0:10.0 | with worship preferences being divided along gender lines instead. |
| 0:15.0 | Drew Dick joins me and Caitlin to discuss the evidence, the implications, and the possible solutions |
| 0:20.0 | for the worship gender |
| 0:21.9 | divide. Then Caitlin interviews Patrick Miller about his new book with co-author Keith Simon, Joyful |
| 0:28.5 | Outsiders. He says there are six different ways we can respond to the loss of Christian cultural |
| 0:33.9 | power, but all of them should be marked by joy rather than fear or anger. |
| 0:39.4 | Also this week, listeners react to our criticism of asking Jesus into your heart, and pigeons |
| 0:45.2 | on a plane. A quick reminder that chapter one of my new book, The World Born in You, |
| 0:51.1 | Letters to a New Generation of American Christians, is now available exclusively |
| 0:55.9 | for Holy Post Plus subscribers. This is the most personal and relevant book I've ever written, |
| 1:01.7 | and I'm doing it in a very different way, as letters to my young adult kids that I'm releasing |
| 1:06.9 | every month on Holy Post Plus. And I'll be doing a live stream with subscribers as well. |
| 1:12.7 | So if you want to join me on this journey, you can go to holypost.com to read the introduction |
| 1:18.1 | and then sign up for Holy Post Plus using the code book for a 20% discount. |
| 1:24.6 | Again, go to holypost.com and use the code book for a 20% discount on Holy Post Plus. |
| 1:31.7 | Here is episode 672. |
| 1:35.2 | Hello and welcome to The Holy Post. I was about to say welcome to SkyPod, but it's Holy Post Day. |
| 1:40.1 | I am Sky Chitani. I am here starting off the show because our fearless leader, Phil Vischer, could not join us today. |
| 1:46.6 | But filling in for Phil is our good friend Drew Dick. Hi, Drew. Hi, that's a little scary. I don't know if I can fill those shoes. No one's asking you to fill the shoes. And I can't sing. I won't sing. |
... |
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