I dreamt that you were twisting through seven suns of gold and the gypsy was insisting

that his story must be told I came two in the morning but I took it as a warning

that you might be a treasure.

I could touch but never hold.

Hi there.

This is Veronica Valley.

Welcome to the Soap Before podcast.

I have another really fabulous interview with you this week.

You are going to want to listen to this one.

It is with Joe Shrank, who I'm just going to say is kind of a big deal in the sober recovery

community. I kind of feel about Joe in the same way I feel about Chip. What he doesn't know about

getting sober and addiction really isn't worth knowing. He was the founder of The Fix Magazine.

He's now

involved in the small bow, an online magazine and a bunch of other stuff. And I think you're really,

really going to like his take. We talk a lot about harm minimization and a whole bunch of stuff

kind of related to that, doing interventions, kids, alcohol drugs. We really kind of go over a

wide range of stuff. But I really, really think you're going to love this one.

Before we get started, I want to just tell you about a coaching program that Chip and I have that is currently enrolling.

It's called the Foundations of Recovery.

It's a three-month coaching program with Chip and I. It's the last time

we're going to do it this year. We plan on doing it probably once next year. It's a very small group.

It's less than 10 people. When you join the Foundations of Recovery, it really is about doing what

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