All the homicide evidence was just scattered and tattered boxes up in the second floor of this warehouse.

Did you find commonalities? What sort of things were found in the scenes?

What kind of description did the victims give?

This kind of behavior would bleed into or leak out of his normal everyday life.

Hello and welcome to Best Case Worse Case. This is your host Jim Clemente, former New York City prosecutor, retired FBI profiler and writer producer on CBS's Criminal Minds.

And with me today in the studio is...

Hi everybody, it's franceyhakes. I'm a state, well former state and federal prosecutor. It is great to be here with you Jim.

Thank you very much.

And francey and I are so excited to be here live at CrimeCon with a very special guest.

Hi I'm Paul Holes, recently retired.

Why did I know that was going to happen? Live at CrimeCon.

Jim did you notice though that we didn't get that guy?

That's just no respect, sorry. But Paul you were saying recently...

Recently retired cold case investigator Al Contra Costa County DA's office.

Well that's great, thanks Paul for coming. Francy and I as I said are very excited to have you here.

So today we're going to talk to you about one of your best cases or worst cases.

Some people find that funny apparently.

I think they might have an idea of what we're talking about Jim.

We'll see. We'll see. He gets the pick.

So could you tell us where in your career you were when this case came to you?

I had just graduated from the police academy and I was located in Martinez, California.

Really? Yes. So what were you at that point?

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