From Relay, this is Upgrade episode 602 for February 9th, 2026.

This episode is brought to you by Delete Me, Factor, and One Password.

My name is Mike Hurley, and I'm joined by Jason Snell.

Hi, Jason.

Hi, Mike Hurley.

Good to be back. Good to have you here. Now, listeners of the podcast, I mean, we just do a podcast every Monday, and they don't even know, but I was gone on vacation all last week. So that was pretty great. But we pre-recorded, so. We did. It's like we didn't miss a beat.

It feels like it was a long time

since we last recorded,

but it was just like three extra days more than normal. I was closer to our friend Jeremy in Australia than I was to you. Wow. Which is weird. Amazing. But that's what happens when you fly out into the middle of the Pacific Ocean. I went to Hawaii if that was not, if people had not decoded that. When you

look at Hawaii on a map, I remember before I went the first time, Gray forced me to open Apple Maps

and take a look at where Hawaii is on the map. And I was like, oh, my word. I thought it was way

closer to American. If you rotate a globe and you can get, you can get the globe to be almost entirely Pacific Ocean.

Yep.

And then you go like, and there's Hawaii right there in the middle.

It's a beautiful place, but it's terrifying.

Just to give people an idea of how far away it is.

So I was as far away from Jeremy in Melbourne as I was from Dan in Boston.

So think of the five and a half hour flight from Boston to San Francisco and then another

five hour flight from San Francisco to Hawaii.

That's, it's a long way.

Like, it's a long way, but it's still only halfway to Australia.

I think, like, at least times on wise, it is the exact opposite side of the

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