Welcome to Jen Rubin's Green Room. This is Jen Rubin from the Washington Post. I'm glad you're back for another week. I hope you've enjoyed our chats when a Washington or a national figure come

into your living room, pour ourselves a glass of wine, sit on the couch and chat, and you get to

listen in. Well, there is a lot going on in the world to put it mildly. And sometimes I think when

there is so much coming in that you get a headache listening to this,

I do think, how do you think it feels to be in the White House when this is going on,

when the deluge of news is really incomparable? And of course, there are all the issues in the White

House we never hear about because problems are solved or national security prohibits

them. So I think there's a lot of curiosity out there about what it's like to work in the White

House, what the good parts are, what the bad parts are. And we are so lucky this week to have with us,

Ron Clayne, who was President Biden's chief of staff when he was vice president, was the fellow who navigated us through Ebola, if you remember, during the Obama administration.

And, of course, he was President Biden's chief of staff for the first two years, helped put together a cabinet, helped marshal through important legislation.

He has left the administration, but he's not gone very far.

So we've tracked him down, and it's my absolute pleasure to have Ron with us to chat.

Ron, welcome to the show.

Thanks, Jen.

Thanks for having me.

Oh, my pleasure.

So you're freed from the White House responsibilities.

Now, I understand you're not contrary to popular belief, eating bonbons and watching daytime TV, but actually practicing law.

Is that right?

I am. I rejoined the old law from where I was at many years ago of Melvinian Myers and back

behind us living as a lawyer. Oh my. So the change from being on call 24 hours a day and having

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