S.O. wants to help you use your car a little less by hoping on your bike a little more,

especially for those shorter trips, like the popping out for a pint of milk trip,

or the off-to-pick up the kids' trip, or even the Friday night Chippy trip.

And to make the swap easier, every day S.O. is giving away an e-bike and 10,000

nectar points that you could spend on cycling gear. Could you do a journey differently?

Search S.O. Thoughtful Driving to find out more. See terms and conditions at s-o-dot-co.uk.

I'm John Bapser speaking with Victor Davis-Hanson, his new book is the Dying Citizen.

America's success is built on the middle classes, and the middle classes success is built on

the constitution of our founders for more than 200 years providing adequate checks and balances.

In the constitution, however, is our pieces that are under review or under pressure by voices

here in the 21st century. Nullification. Andrew Jackson, we all learn this in grade school.

Andrew Jackson, 1832, the Civil War, 1857, 1861. Two instances of states, South Carolina with

Jackson and the Confederacy with the Dred Scott to the secession of late 60, early 61,

leading to the Civil War. And then there was the nullification or attempted nullification

during the 50s and 60s in the Civil Rights Stripe in the South. But now we've come to nullification

today. Victor, I can't find anywhere a serious argument for sanctuary cities now that they're

sagging under the overwhelming number of immigrants who are arriving. The sanctuary cities suddenly

want money from the central state. Are they rethinking this sanctuary virtue of these last years?

I think they are a little bit. There's 550 counties, state or municipal sanctuary cities,

and that's just a new feminism for nullification of federal immigration law, where it says that if

somebody is here illegally and commits a crime, we're not going to turn that person over to the

immigration services. But lately cases in San Francisco where people here on lawfully have

...