Marshall here, welcome back to the realignment.

Today's episode is a debate-slash-conversation on the abundance agenda.

On the pro-abundance side, we have Paul E. Williams, founder and executive director

of the Center for Public Enterprise, a think tank focused on broadening the public sector's capacity

to deliver economic development.

On the anti-abundance side, we have Jeff Hauser, founder and executive director of the

Revolving Door Project. The Roving Door Project was created in order to scrutinize executive branch

employees to ensure they use their office to serve the broad public interest rather than entrenched

corporate power or seek personal advancement. Jeff has been very critical of the abundance agenda

since Ezra Kalani

Derek Thompson's abundance book came out last March. Last week, he said that no one from the

abundance crew had accepted his invitation to debate the topic. Paul quickly offered up his response,

and I offered the realignment as a platform. I obviously have my biases as a host. I work at the Niskinnan Center, one of the

leading abundance and stay capacity think tanks. I've covered the topic for the past year,

and I'm set to MC the Big Abundance 2025 conference in DC. At the same time, though, the

realignment has been supported by the Hewot Foundation's economy and society program for the past four years.

And despite the clear shift in my politics over the course of the show,

Hewlett's focus on building a new politics and policy agenda after the post-1980s neoliberal era.

Yes, that term is overused, but I still think it's accurate, has always motivated me.

So when Jeff accused abundance as being mere neoliberalism in his tweet, I really disagreed

and wanted to offer up an alternative.

That said, the warning for abundance, especially after Zauron's New York City primary win,

...