538 - Find Your Point of View, Story Insights, and Artist / Audience Dynamics with Mac Barnett & Jon Klassen

Creative Pep Talk

Arts, Education, Business, Design

4.8 • 2.3K Ratings

🗓️ 14 January 2026

⏱️ 114 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Have you ever heard someone say that making creative work is about having a “point of view”? It sounds right, but what does it mean and how do you find yours? I can’t think of any creatives that have a more compelling sense of their “point of view” than my guests today. Author Mac Barnett and author-illustrator Jon Klassen have such a strong voice, and I have been longing to have them both on the show for such a long time!! This is an instant all-timer episode for me. These two legends from the picture book world just knocked it out of the park, and we have an incredible chat exploring how to find your point of view, the artist/audience relationship, storytelling, and so much more. Buckle up. This mega episode starts off with a bang and just gets better and better all the way til the end! This episode will make for a great companion for a long creative session or long drive! Hope you love it as much as I did! SHOW NOTES: Substack: "Looking at Picture Books"https://lookingatpicturebooks.substack.com "Mac B. Spy Kid"https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=%22Mac+B.+Spy+Kid%22&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8 "The Skull" by Jon Klassenhttps://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/725351/the-skull-by-jon-klassen-illustrated-by-jon-klassen/ "Sam and Dave Dig a Hole" by Mac Barnett and Jon Klassenhttps://www.macbarnett.com/sam-dave-dig-a-hole "Extra Yarn"https://www.macbarnett.com/extra-yarn "Where the Wild Things Are"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Where_the_Wild_Things_Are "Goodnight Moon"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodnight_Moon "The Remains of the Day" by Kazuo Ishigurohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Remains_of_the_Day "Swim in a Pond in the Rain" by George Saundershttps://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/609280/a-swim-in-a-pond-in-the-rain-by-george-saunders/ "Outside Over There" by Maurice Sendakhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outside_Over_There "Sam and the Firefly" by P.D. Eastmanhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_and_the_Firefly "Dead Souls" by Nikolai Gogolhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Souls "Let the Right One In"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Let_the_Right_One_In_(film) "Ponyo"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponyo "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_Sunshine_of_the_Spotless_Mind "Mysterious Things" by Andy J. Pizza and Sophie Millerhttp://invisiblethings.co "Making Comics" by Scott McCloudhttps://www.scottmccloud.com/makingcomics/ Producer / Editor: Sophie Miller http://sophiemiller.coAudio Editing / Sound Design: Conner Jones http://pendingbeautiful.coSoundtrack / Theme Song: Yoni Wolf / WHY? http://whywithaquestionmark.com SPONSORS:SQUARESPACEHead to https://www.squarespace.com/PEPTALK to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain using code PEPTALK AEROPRESSCheck out Aeropress and use my code PEPTALK for a great deal: https://aeropress.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

Click on a timestamp to play from that location

0:00.0	Okay, let's talk about finding your point of view as an artist. For me, this is maybe the most
0:10.7	essential thing in your creative utility belt, having a point of view, having an opinion,
0:20.1	having something to say, being able to tap into what
0:23.2	you have to say and what you think and what your taste is. This is having your own point of view.
0:28.5	And I think it's the most, it's even more important than being super talented or super skilled.
0:33.8	I actually think this trumps all of those. And it's so important.
0:38.7	And so today on the show, I am thrilled to have a chat, an interview, a conversation that
0:46.9	I had with Mac Barnett and John Claussen about point of view, artist point of view.
0:52.9	The reason I'm thrilled is, first of all,
0:54.4	these guys are freaking legends in the picture book space and beyond.
0:59.4	But they just have so many incredible books under their belt.
1:04.1	They've made a couple together like Extra Yarn and Sam and Dave dig a hole,
1:09.0	and then they have a bunch of books apart from each other.
1:12.8	Mack is an author.
1:15.0	John is an author and illustrator.
1:17.9	And these two guys just have such a clear, compelling, creative point of view.
1:24.3	And as you'll find out in this interview, they had a big impact on my
1:29.6	decision to commit to picture books as a big part of my creative journey. So excited to get
1:37.5	into this. And we really do spend lots of the conversation talking about point of view and what it
1:41.9	means and how to get there and what that looks like
1:45.2	and how to differentiate from your creative heroes. And also, I took a couple risks in the
1:51.7	questions and the way that I approached this. But I'm really glad I did because this is just
	...

Please login to see the full transcript.

Previous episode | Next episode

Disclaimer: The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Creative Pep Talk, and are the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Tapesearch.

Generated transcripts are the property of Creative Pep Talk and are distributed freely under the Fair Use doctrine. Transcripts generated by Tapesearch are not guaranteed to be accurate.