Today my podcast is really for partners as well as for women who are experiencing symptoms.

So I've got Joe Warner with me, whose new book is called Burning Up, Frozen Out.

And it's really about how you can help if your partner is experiencing symptoms,

how you can be their advocate, how you can help them, how you can support them,

and how you can take them

to the doctor to receive the treatment that they usually want as well. So this is really

exciting. I'm meeting you for the first time, Joe, and I'm holding your book. It feels like this is

a long time coming. And for those of you listening, it's called Burning Up, Frozen Out. And it's got a woman and a man sleeping back to back in a bed. So you reached out to me. How long ago was it now?

I think we probably spoke about this time last year. Yeah. It goes to show how long the whole book research and publishing. It takes an awful long time. And I wanted to write this book basically because I went out and tried to find it and it didn't exist. And that spirit of if it doesn't exist, go out there and create it. That's what I did. I took the ball by the horns and you were one of the first people I wanted to speak to because I've been following you on Instagram for a while

and it's always that you know you've got a couple of big names you want to interview for a book like this and you were very generous with your time and I think I'm not quite sure you realised just how important that interview was for me because I've done lots of interviews. I'm a journalist for 20 years.

I've spoken to an awful lot of people

from all different walks of life,

but I'd never really been at That interview was for me because I've done lots of interviews. I'm journalists for 20 years. I've spoken to an awful lot of people from all different walks of life.

But I'd never really been at a project like this where I knew nothing.

I'd covered men's health and fitness for a long time and men had become sort of very simple creatures in my mind.

You know, if you want to build muscle or burn fat, it's basically about lifting weights or what you

eat.

But then I discovered hormones and specifically female hormones.

And it was quite terrifying until we had that conversation.

And I think something you said to me, and I've actually put it in the book where I quote you,

where you talk about how perimenopause took you by surprise.

And it almost just took the weight of the world off my shoulders.

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