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Jocko Podcast

509: The Need to Lead: Lessons from Dogfights, Dunker Drills, and Ego Checks. With Dave Berke.

Jocko Podcast

Jocko DEFCOR Network

Management, History, Business

4.831.3K Ratings

🗓️ 8 October 2025

⏱️ 132 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

>Join Jocko Underground<

Dave Burke breaks down why humility, detachment, and rejecting perfection are the foundation of true leadership. Jocko adds his perspective from the SEAL Teams to reveal what separates leaders who win from those who fail.



Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

Transcript

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0:00.0

This is Jocko Podcast number 509 with Echo Charles and me, Jocko Willink.

0:04.0

Good evening, Echo.

0:05.0

Good.

0:06.0

In the Battle of Ramadi, 2006, every single operation conducted by coalition forces was critical.

0:14.0

It was an all hands-on deck.

0:18.0

Violent insurgents controlled two-thirds of the city, regularly launching complex coordinated attacks on friendly forces.

0:24.6

Every day American service men and women were wounded or killed.

0:28.6

To overcome the enemy or even to survive, we needed to work together.

0:35.6

Soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines brought their specialized equipment,

0:40.8

skills, and warfighting ability to the fight. During that battle, I was the commander of SEAL Team

0:47.6

3's task unit bruiser. For a small unit, we had a relatively powerful and unique capability.

1:02.0

Highly trained snipers, forceful breaches, aggressive machine gunners, crafty point men, and elite combat medics.

1:09.9

But in order to maximize our effectiveness in this battle, we had to integrate with the conventional units of the Army and the Marine Corps.

1:15.6

These were the circumstances in which I met Dave Burke.

1:21.0

He was a distinguished graduate of the rigorous Marine Corps Basic School.

1:26.5

He finished at the top of his class in flight school and became a naval aviator.

1:29.6

Based on his stellar performance during flight training he was selected to become a fighter pilot as a Marine Corps single-seat FAA 18 fighter

1:37.4

pilot he was selected to attend the top gun school after the terrorist attacks of September 11th he flew countless combat

1:47.0

missions as a pilot and landed hundreds of times on that tiny patch of steel in the ocean

1:52.0

called an aircraft carrier the Marine Corps then chose Major Burke to return to Top Gun

1:59.0

as an instructor where he was eventually selected

2:02.2

to be the lead instructor at the Top Gun School.

...

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