Hey friend, welcome to Java with Julie. I'm Julie Slattery, and let me remind you that

Jav With Julie is a listener-supported podcast. It's an outreach of the ministry, authentic intimacy.

Well, you know, a very common argument among Christians is some contention around the idea of

whether you are egalitarian or complementarian. Let me explain that just a little bit.

Egalitarians come from the point of view that men and women are called to have the same type of

roles and neither is the leader over the other, whether that's in marriage or in the church context.

Now, complementarians come from the point of view that the role of women is more of a compliment

to men, a support to men, and therefore not to be leader over men or alongside men, particularly

again in the family and church context.

Now, friends, this is a decades-long discussion, and very often people are asked to pick

a side. My guest today is Dr. Michelle Lee Barnwell, and she often people are asked to pick a side.

My guest today is Dr. Michelle Lee Barnwell, and she is the author of a book called

Neither Complementarian Nor E. Galitarian.

She talks about what we might be missing when we look at gender roles and the relationship

between the genders in both marriage and in the church as a whole.

Michelle holds a Ph.D. from the University of Notre Dame. She is an esteemed theologian and author and serves as an affiliate professor of New Testament at Biola University.

As you're going to hear, she is both highly intellectual and gospel-centered in her approach and understanding of this topic. Well, friend,

this is a great episode for you to listen to as you consider for yourself gender roles in the

church, gender roles in your marriage, and why God created man and women in the first place.

Let's sit to the coffee shop for my conversation with Dr. Michelle Lee Barnwell.

Well, Michelle, I have been looking forward to this conversation ever since I first heard about

your book, neither a complementarian nor egalitarian.

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