This is Jocko Podcast number 463 with Echo Charles and me Jocko Willink. Good evening, Echo.

Good evening. Also, joining us once again tonight is John Spencer, John Spencer, who is on podcast 462.

We talked about his book, Connected Soldiers, Life Leadership and Social Connections in Modern Warfare.

He was active duty in the Army for 25 years. He went up through

the ranks. Do you guys call it a Mustang? Yes. Okay. He was a Mustang like me from private to major,

served as a platoon leader and a company commander in Iraq. And right now he is the chair of urban

warfare studies at the Modern War Institute, West Point. Also serves is the chair of urban warfare studies at the modern war institute west point

also serves as the chair of urban warfare studies with the madison policy forum and a member

of the international working group on subterranean warfare and he's written a bunch of books we've

covered one of them he's written a bunch of articles i've read some of them he's written a bunch of books. We've covered one of them. He's written a bunch of articles.

I've read some of them.

He's contributed to a bunch of different books.

And I guess the reason we stopped last time is because we were about to start getting into what you started doing when you retired from the army.

But I think one of the things that led to you what you did when you retired was teaching

at West Point.

Was that impactful?

So you're still in the Army and you ended up teaching a West Point.

Yep.

Talk to me about that.

So actually my ex for the young EOD Lieutenant had gotten a job to teach psychology at West Point.

I needed to keep the family together,

so I applied for a position in the Department of Military Instructions teaching tactics.

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