This is Jocko Podcast Number 445 with Eco Charles and me Jocko Willing good evening echo good evening

I I heard a quote fairly early in my Navy career and the gist of the quote was that seals succeed because of

leadership or in spite of their leadership.

And when I was young, it was a little hard for me to understand that,

because it's definitely a contradictory statement, right?

That you can either succeed because of leadership you have

or you succeed in spite of the leadership that you have.

But as I grew up and as I got older,

it became more and more clear what that meant.

By the time I was getting towards the end of my career

and I was running Trade at, which is the West Coast Seal, which ran the training for the West Coast Seal teams, it became very clear to me what that meant.

Because you see in the teams, we have some great leaders,

and we have some not so great leaders.

And in the teams, we've got some great guys, we've got some not so great guys but what I

realized in trade at was and this is after I was in trade at and I was now teaching

and watching and observing platoon after platoon after platoon after platoon go through training.

What I realized was in a platoon you needed like a couple good leaders.

If you needed, if you had a couple good leaders. If you needed if you had a couple good leaders then the platoon

was going to be all right. The one exception to that is if you had a real arrogant

loser in there.

He could ruin every other good leader.

If you have one and especially the senior guy,

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