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The Talk Show With John Gruber

442: ‘Bad Dates’, With Jason Snell

The Talk Show With John Gruber

John Gruber

Technology

3.63.6K Ratings

🗓️ 28 February 2026

⏱️ 137 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Jason Snell returns to the show to discuss the 2025 Six Colors Apple Report Card, MacOS 26 Tahoe, Apple Creator Studio, along with what we expect/hope for in next week’s Apple product announcements.

Transcript

Click on a timestamp to play from that location

0:00.0

I wanted you on the show, Jason, for a couple of weeks now. We've been trying to work it out. And now you are. And in the interim, I got very angry at you. Now I'm angry. It's true. I'm sorry you're angry. We're seeing each other next week. Well, that's why I want to work this. I want to work this out before we're going to work. Okay, good. I'm going to work it through. I'm listening to the upgrade. One of my favorite upgrade episodes

0:22.5

of the year is you and Mike Hurley doing the recap of the Apple Report Card. It's part of the whole

0:28.9

Apple Report Card annual extravaganza. I love it. And then you get to be talking about the Mac,

0:36.7

and you make the very interesting observation that the way you've set up the report card all along is partly to fight against category proliferation.

0:47.7

For sure.

0:48.1

Because it's already in a lot of categories.

0:50.1

Yeah.

0:50.2

And partly just to make it, let's make it difficult on the scorers, the graders, the voters, what do we call the, what do we call the invitees?

0:58.2

The panelists, the panelists, I would say.

1:01.2

That it's, I'm not giving you two Mac categories.

1:03.2

You've got to settle like the Gestalt of the Mac as a whole.

1:06.1

Right. And that it's, and I agree. I both find it difficult and it makes me angry, but I agree that it's like,

1:12.2

it's like getting some exercise in. It's supposed to be difficult. It's supposed to work your muscles.

1:17.4

And then you get to Yapin with Mike about how you would have graded it, which we'll get to in a

1:23.2

moment. And you said you would have given it an A because you don't get the kerfuffle over

1:28.9

Tahoe and then I want to. That's not quite what I said. By the way, I'm going to throw your bone here. This is my piece offering right up front, which is I think you're right about the Siri AI category. I think I need to add it. And I think you were right last year and I just forgot to add it. So I'm going to, I made it to do to put that in my spreadsheet so that it happens for next year.

1:46.6

Because I think you're right. I think this year. last year and I just forgot to add it. So I'm going to, I made it to do to put that in my spreadsheet

1:45.0

so that it happens for next year. Because I think you're right. I think this year especially, it will be very interesting to see what happens. And so I want to kind of commit to that now that I think that's a good idea. But look, what I said about the Mac, it's funny, because I think we, I don't think we disagree as much.

2:01.4

I don't think you're going to need to throttle me too much.

2:04.2

Maybe, maybe just unconsciousness instead of death.

2:07.3

I, honestly, it's one of these things, too, where it's obviously the trend over the last

2:12.3

few months is people talking about how terrible they think liquid glass is and how bad

...

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