Hello and welcome to Choose Out Fire. Today on the show we have another episode of our book club.

Today we're reading Dollars and Sense, How We Miss Think Money and How To Spend Smarter

by Dan Arieli and Jeff Kreisler. This book was chock full of all of the behavioral finance

and psychological aspects, these little tips on why we spend, why we think about this,

some things that seem illogical but may or may not be, frankly. And that's what's cool about

money and what we talk about here at Choose Out Fire all the time is if it was just the nuts and bolts

of money, this would be easy. That's five or ten percent of it, but the other 90 percent,

it's all about the psychological. And I have two wonderful guests here today to help me talk

through this book who are uniquely suited to talk about psychology. So we have Ginger, who everyone

on the podcast knows, this is her I think fourth appearance on the show, and Ginger is a licensed

therapist and we have Clint Murphy and he's the host of the Growth Guide podcast and actually his

Twitter bio says it all, I simplify psychology, success and money by sharing advice for millionaires,

expert authors and my life. So I think we're going to have a fantastic conversation and with that,

welcome to Choose Out Fire.

All right Ginger and Clint, thank you so much for being here Clint, welcome to Choose Out Fire.

Thank you for having me, it's great to be on the show.

Yeah man, this should be fun. So you and I talked offline about a month ago and just had a

wonderful conversation. It's actually astonishing how many similarities we have in our lives down

to the accounting firm we worked for decades ago and kids the same age and all and an interest in both

by and psychology. So if you don't mind, just give the audience a sense of where you've been,

I guess on both of those topics, but really you're you're interest in the five world in general.

Yeah, the interest in the five world really came out of a challenging situation where I was leaving

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