What's up, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome back to the Real Talk with Zubi podcast. On today's episode,

I'm going to be having a conversation with investigative journalist Ashley Rinsberg. Welcome to the show.

Thank you, Zubi. Happy to have you here, Ashley. So for my listeners who are not familiar with you and your work,

please introduce yourself to my audience. I am an investigative journalist, like you said. I'm also the founder and

chief investigative officer of NPOV, and that stands for a neutral point of view, where we

investigate all sorts of narrative influence campaigns on online, on social media, on platforms like

Wikipedia and AI, chat GPT and Gemini.

So we do that in an effort to help shed light on what's actually going on inside of our information ecosystem.

Got that. And how did you get into this line of work? What interested you to get into this?

I originally wrote a book about the New York Times back in 2021.

We talked about that.

I forget.

It must have been around 2021, maybe 2022.

And it was a question of how the New York Times misreporting or fabrications, distortions,

shaped the course of history over the last 100 years.

So it was kind of in the same vein.

I started to do a lot more reporting about media and social media and some of the big topics that were fed into these spaces, including COVID, like the lab leak origin, and how that kind of all

got distorted by platforms that were just flat out manipulating the conversation,

sometimes in the behest of government.

So as I kind of pushed further into the space, I started to look at Wikipedia.

A colleague of mine named David Rosado, who's a machine learning researcher in New Zealand, did an interesting

study where he compared how figures from the left and from the right in politics are portrayed

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