Welcome to the Making Sense Podcast.

This is Sam Harris.

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Today I'm going to be speaking with David Krakauer, who runs the Santa Fe Institute,

one of the most interesting organizations, scientifically anywhere.

And David is a mathematical biologist.

He has a PhD in evolutionary theory from Oxford.

But being at the Santa Fe Institute puts him at the crossroads of many different areas

of inquiry.

We talk a little bit about what the Institute is.

But given that it's focus is on complex systems, the people there attempt to understand

complexity using every scientific and intellectual tool available.

So David knows a lot about many things, as you'll hear in this conversation.

We start by covering some foundational concepts in science, like information and complexity

...