4. Grace Marks
Lady Killers with Lucy Worsley
BBC
4.7 • 908 Ratings
🗓️ 25 July 2022
⏱️ 29 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
Lucy Worsley investigates the ordinary lives and extraordinary crimes of Victorian women.
This story is about a young servant, Grace Marks, accused of two brutal murders that generated enormous attention in the new world of Upper Canada in 1843. In that time and in that place, murders were rare - and rarer still was a female murderer.
Grace Marks and stable boy James McDermott went on the run, ending up in Lewiston, New York after their employers Thomas Kinnear and his housekeeper, Nancy were found dead. Grace insisted she didn't kill them and was forced by James McDermott to run away with him. But when Grace was arrested she was even wearing the clothing of the woman she was accused of murdering.
Lucy examines the evidence, including duelling confessions from the accused, with the help of psychological scientist and host of the Bad People podcast, Dr Julia Shaw.
They ask if the 16-year-old housemaid who had worked in five different houses in three years could be responsible for the violent killings.
We also hear from historian Susan Houston from York University, Toronto, who has written about the case and discusses the legal and social environment that is stacked against Grace.
In the case made famous by Margarent Atwood in Alias Grace, we speculate on what happened and ask if Grace would have been treated differently if she had more power. Or was she actually a naïve 16-year-old caught up in the doomed plot of a disgruntled stable boy? You decide….
Producer: Sandra Bartlett Readers: Colleen Prendergast and William Hope Sound Design: Chris Maclean
A StoryHunter production for BBC Radio 4
Transcript
Click on a timestamp to play from that location
| 0:00.0 | Before this BBC podcast kicks off, I'd like to tell you about some others you might enjoy. |
| 0:05.0 | My name's Will Wilkin and I Commission Music Podcast for the BBC. |
| 0:08.0 | It's a really cool job, but every day we get to tell the incredible stories behind songs, moments and movements, |
| 0:14.7 | stories of struggle and success, rises and falls, the funny, the ridiculous. |
| 0:19.1 | And the BBC's position at the heart of British music means we can tell those stories like no one else. |
| 0:24.6 | We were, are and always will be right there at the center of the narrative. |
| 0:28.6 | So whether you want an insightful take on music right now or a nostalgic deep dive into some of the most famous and |
| 0:34.4 | infamous moments in music check out the music podcasts on BBC Sounds. |
| 0:38.6 | BBC Sounds music radio podcasts. |
| 0:43.6 | This is Lady Killers, where history meets true crime from BBC Radio 4 with me Lucy Worsley. |
| 1:00.0 | In the 19th century, Canada for Irish people is a place to run away to, from wars and bad politics and poverty. |
| 1:10.0 | But the incomers find this new world ruff and raw. Life is a lot of hard work, especially for domestic servants. |
| 1:20.0 | Wanted. Strong kitchen girl, able to bake, wash milk and feed calves age not under 18. |
| 1:28.0 | Wanted, a respectable steady young woman as servant of all work. She must be a plain cook and have a 12 |
| 1:35.9 | month's character from her last situation. I lived servant during the three years |
| 1:40.2 | that I have been in Canada at various places. Alderman Dixons, Mr McManus, Mr Coates, and Mr Harriti. |
| 1:48.0 | In June last I went to live with Thomas Watson Shoemaker on Lott Street. Nancy Montgomery used to bet it there and I was hired as a servant by her for Mr. Kinnear at $3 per month. |
| 2:00.0 | Welcome back to Lady Killers, the program that mixes true crime with history but with a twist. |
| 2:06.0 | We're taking a look, a feminist look actually, at the ordinary lives and extraordinary crimes, |
| 2:13.6 | supposedly committed by different murderersers from Victorian Britain, |
| 2:17.3 | North America, and beyond. |
| 2:19.9 | You just heard the words of Grace Marks, |
... |
Please login to see the full transcript.
Disclaimer: The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from BBC, and are the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Tapesearch.
Generated transcripts are the property of BBC and are distributed freely under the Fair Use doctrine. Transcripts generated by Tapesearch are not guaranteed to be accurate.
Copyright © Tapesearch 2026.