#393: Archbishop Viganò, Schism, and Francis —Marc Balestrieri

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Patrick Coffin

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4.8 • 1.4K Ratings

🗓️ 12 September 2024

⏱️ 20 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

In this thought-provoking episode of The Patrick Coffin Show, Patrick engages in a rather detailed, and somewhat technical, conversation with canon lawyer Marc Balestrieri to address two hot-button topics within the Catholic Church: the schismatic claims surrounding Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò and the mounting evidence that Pope Francis (Jorge Bergoglio) could be considered an antipope.

Guest Marc Balestrieri is founder and president of Canonical Aid, an international canon law service helping lay and clergy with canonical issues. He is licensed to practice before any ecclesiastical court in the world, except the tribunals of the Holy See, and specializes in the nullity of Marriage, penal canon law, rotal Jurisprudence and praxis, and the rights of clerics and the faithful.

He was recruited to serve as a staff canonist for the Sacred Roman Rota in the Vatican for the Holy See, and his record includes service in the United States for the Archdioceses of Saint Paul & Minneapolis, Saint Louis, and Los Angeles; England for the Archdiocese of Westminster; and France for the Archdiocese of Strasbourg.

In this interview, Balestrieri offers a detailed analysis of the canonical definitions of schism and whether Viganò’s outspoken critiques of Francis, in light of the July 2024 Vatican announcement of Viganò’s excommunication for schism. They explore Viganò’s controversial stance on issues like the Second Vatican Council and his sharp critiques of the Vatican’s leadership.

The conversation then pivots to the question of Bergoglio’s legitimacy as pope. Balestrieri shares insights into historical and canonical precedents that fuel arguments for and against the idea that Francis may not be the true successor of St. Peter. Patrick and Marc discuss the impact these debates have on the faithful and the Church’s unity, encouraging listeners to think critically about the current papal crisis.

Tune in for a fascinating exploration of modern ecclesial controversies, and what it all means for Catholics worldwide.

Topics covered in this episode:

The proper definition of schism
The differences between the 1917 Pio-Benedictine Code of Canon Law
The dilemma of being on trial for excommunication and schism when you don’t recognize the validity of the antagonist-judges
The relevant canons for papal resignation and the distinction between munus (office or gift) and ministerium (external functions)
Principles for maintaining hope in an upside down Church under Bergoglio
The controversies surrounding the St. Gallen Mafia’s misadventures in the lead up and voting pattern in the March 2013 Conclave

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Marc Balestrieri’s website

Pope Emeritus? The Always Is Also a Forever by Estefania Acosta Ochoa

Transcript

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0:00.0	Welcome to the Patrick Coffin Show. Let's get right into it. I want to speak with Canon lawyer,
0:04.6	Mark Balistieri, about the status of Archbishop Carla Maria Vigano and what a schism is and maybe
0:10.6	hit the canonical evidence about the antipope or pseudo-pope regarding Francis, originally from Buenos Aires.
0:17.4	Lots to talk about. This is something of interest to people outside the Catholic Church
0:21.6	as well because it goes to global geopolitics and the difference between true justice and the best
0:28.6	we can hope for here in this life, both civil and canonical. This episode brought to you by
0:33.5	my pillow. I'm very gung-ho about Mike Lindell. I've interviewed Mike three times. I love their
0:38.8	products. It's not just pillows. It's not just sheets. It's towels. It's bathrobes. It's doggy
0:45.2	beds. My dog scout sleeps onto my pillow bed. It's slippers. It's everything. Go to my pillow.com.
0:50.3	My name Patrick at the checkout. That's the coupon code. Patrick gets you a 66% discount for Patrick Coffin Show listeners. So go to Mypillow.com. It's All-American Made. Moneyback guarantee. I love his products. I'm grateful to Mike for his stick-to-itiveness and his punchback twice as hard. So we're big MyPillow fans here at the Patrick Coffin Show. MyPillow.com, Patrick's the coupon at checkout. You're welcome in advance. I first met our guest today, Mark Bellis-Jerry, at a party in Los Angeles in the previous millennium. I remember what I was wearing. I think I remember what you were wearing, Mark. Just let me, I want to go through your background uh as a as a as a canonist
1:29.1	you have a licentious and a licentiate in canon law from the pontifical gregoine university in rome
1:35.0	mark has served on all kinds of dioceses at the roman rhoda level in the vatican he's worked in
1:42.7	england los angeles France. He's been the
1:46.0	defender of the bond, the auditor. He's taught canon law as well as an adjunct professor at the
1:50.7	University of St. Thomas for the St. Paul's Seminary in School of Divinity. He's also fluent in
1:56.3	English, Italian, French, Spanish, Latin, proficient in German. Yeah, that is good. Mark Ballastray, welcome to the show. Thank you very much, Patrick. And thank you very much for inviting me to your show. It's an honor. Yeah, well, thanks, Mark. You and I have kept in very dim touch through the years. Do you remember the party in Los Angeles? Oh, I remember very well. Yeah, you were dressed, I was, I was, I'm not proud. I was a crack whore.
2:23.0	I'll just say it. I had white powder. And you, I remember you stood out because you were a survivor of the
2:28.3	Titanic. You had a life preserver, RMS Titanic, and you were looking very posh,h like you just come from the ballroom before you got onto the
2:37.2	the rescue boat so that was that was a lot of time with tails and it was a life buoy if you will oh yeah that's right
2:44.5	volcanic that was good so yes we are survivors Patrick yes are true. And maybe one day will be thrivers.
2:53.5	So, Mark, I have so many questions about what canon law is. Maybe we can start by opening the aperture up and talk about how different the 1983 code, because it's the one that governs the Catholic Church now in terms of praxis and justice and court
3:08.9	forum settings.
	...

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