Welcome to the MyBuddyGreen podcast. I'm Jason Wachib, founder and co-CEO of MyBuddyGreen and your host.

Mark Schatzker is an award-winning journalist and a writer in residence at the modern

diet and physiology research center at Yale University. He's the best-selling author of the

Dorito effect, the surprising new truth about food and flavor. And today we're here to talk about

his latest bestseller, which is a personal favorite of mine. And it's titled The End of Craving,

Recovering the Lost Wisdom of Eating Well.

Mark, welcome. Thank you so much for having me.

I loved, loved, loved your book, probably one of my favorites of 2021. And you start the book

by some nutrition, with some nutrition inside baseball. You share an interesting history

on high carb versus high fat. You talk about Gary Taubes and Kevin Hall and a little bit of

to debate there. So can you elaborate on the two different philosophies and have we learned

anything in terms of high fat and high carb? Well, I guess we're at a historical moment right now,

which is to say we've had roughly two decades of beating up on two macro nutrients. So I was born

in 1973 and I still remember the kind of the war against fats. Some people say this was all

the government's doing. I don't think that's true. It was more of a cultural moment where we decided

that fat was a problem. You know, what makes you fat? It made a lot of sense. And as we all know,

now in the 80s, we all bought in way too much to cards. What we don't know so well is that we

actually didn't even limit our fat consumption all that much. It just sort of held either,

but the war against fat was a, you know, a failure. We gained a lot of weight. The rate of obesity

ticked up significantly. And then we had to sort of reckoning in the mid to late 90s where we decided

that's not working. Carbs are the problem. You know, I remember when it suddenly became trendy to go

to like a dinner party and have, you know, have two helpings of flank steak, but avoid the garlic bread,

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