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Counselling Tutor podcast

358 – Letting Go of the Outcome in Counselling

Counselling Tutor podcast

Kenneth Kelly

Education

4.8657 Ratings

🗓️ 6 December 2025

⏱️ 83 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

The Horn Effect and Autism – Don’t Lose You in Counselling Training In Episode 358 of the Counselling Tutor Podcast, your hosts Rory Lees-Oakes and Ken Kelly explore this week’s three topics: Firstly, in ‘Ethical, Sustainable Practice’, we discuss letting go of the outcome in counselling - why embracing client autonomy matters. Then in ‘Practice Matters’, Rory speaks with Paula Jones about the Horn Effect and autism - how unconscious bias can shape perceptions of neurodivergent individuals. And finally, in ‘Student Services’, Rory and Ken explore not losing yourself in counselling training - staying authentic while growing through your studies. Letting Go of the Outcome in Counselling [starts at 03:18 mins] In this section, Rory and Ken explore how holding on to an expected outcome can compromise client autonomy and therapeutic presence, highlighting the importance of letting go of the outcome in counselling. Key points discussed include: Fixating on a client’s outcome may cause the therapist to override the client’s direction or autonomy. Therapy is not linear - clients may change goals or progress in unexpected ways. The BACP and NCPS frameworks emphasise client autonomy and non-directive practice. Supervisors play a key role in helping counsellors identify when they’re steering the process. Letting go involves being mindful, present, and trusting the client’s self-directed journey. Progress may be subtle or delayed; the therapist’s role is to offer presence, not direction. The Horn Effect and Autism [starts at 28:48 mins] In this week’s ‘Practice Matters’, Rory speaks with Paula Jones, a neurodivergent leadership consultant and coach, about the Horn Effect and how unconscious bias impacts perceptions of neurodivergent clients. Key points from this conversation include: The Horn Effect is a cognitive bias where one perceived negative trait skews the entire perception of a person. Neurodivergent individuals often experience quick, unjustified judgements in professional and social settings. Misunderstandings can arise from masking, directness, or non-normative behaviours. Paula highlights the need for neurodivergent-sensitive intake processes and safe, accepting therapeutic spaces. Therapists should be aware of their own unconscious biases and create space for clients to be themselves. The interview includes powerful personal experiences and practical suggestions for inclusive practice. Don’t Lose You in Counselling Training [starts at 58:43 mins] In this section, Rory and Ken explore how training can challenge students’ sense of self and how to stay grounded through the process. Key points include: Students may feel they need to become someone else to be a good counsellor. Counselling training can feel intense - it's important to maintain perspective. True personal growth enhances who you are rather than replacing your identity. Authenticity is key - it's okay to be yourself and still be professional. Supervision and personal therapy support students in processing and integrating their development. Sarah Henry joins to share insights on navigating authenticity and maintaining your core self during training. Links and Resources Counselling Skills Academy Advanced Certificate in Counselling Supervision Basic Counselling Skills: A Student Guide Counsellor CPD Counselling Study Resource Counselling Theory in Practice: A Student Guide Counselling Tutor Training and CPD Facebook group Website Online and Telephone Counselling: A Practitioner’s Guide Online and Telephone Counselling Course

Transcript

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0:00.0

Today's episode of the counselling tutor podcast is sponsored by Webhealer.

0:06.0

You're a counsellor in private practice and you need a website or you've got an existing website

0:13.8

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0:19.0

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0:22.7

design and build. Now, Webheeler specialise in websites for counsellors and psychotherapists.

0:28.5

It's what they do. And the Webhealer team provide a completely non-technical done-for-you

0:35.6

solution, leaving you to focus your time on your clients.

0:40.6

Operating for 20 years, Webhealer are a trusted resource amongst counselors when it comes

0:46.3

to getting your practice online. So get the package details and claim your 100 pound off coupon

0:54.1

for your new website by going to

0:57.6

counsellingtutor.com forward slash website. That's counsellingtutor.com forward slash website.

1:06.6

Hello and welcome to episode 300 and 558 of the counselling tutor podcast. I'm Rory and my guest today

1:15.3

describes herself as a neurodivergent leadership consultant, a coach, a doctoral research

1:22.7

students and a self-confessed strategic troublemaker.

1:31.0

It's my great pleasure to be speaking with Paula Jones about the horn effect and sub-cognitive bias,

1:35.9

those unconscious processes that can shape how we perceive

1:39.8

and respond to neurodivergent individuals,

1:43.5

whether there are clients or the people we meet in everyday life.

1:48.6

Together, we'll explore how these subtle biases manifest in professional and social settings

1:55.2

and how increasing our awareness can help create fairer, more authentic connections.

2:01.6

So with that said, let's roll the intro.

2:05.9

Welcome to the counselling tutor podcast.

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