You have to understand that this is something these are thoughts that that started in his brain these are thoughts that he embraced rather than rejected.

The draw to this material is so strong and that if they have a victim right there and they have their phone then I think it's logical in my opinion to think that they would be reporting it.

As a prosecutor I definitely want that evidence so that a clever defense attorney cannot make a decent argument for why the wife's hair is on that burlap sack that was found on one of the victims.

Hello and welcome to best case worst case this is Jim Clemente retired at the agro file a former New York City prosecutor writer producer criminal minds and with me today is.

Kathleen canning mellow retired FBI agent and fellow agent B.A.U. with Jim Clemente.

And hi everybody it's francey hates former state and federal prosecutor i'm joining Jim and Kathy today and I also want to make sure I share with you all that I am currently the executive producer of audibles invisible life and death on the reservation which Jim we're going to talk about a little bit later toward the end of the podcast.

But first I just have to say thank you to Kathy for agreeing to join us today you've joined us before on the podcast Kathy but gosh Jim it's been at least a year maybe two don't you think.

Been a while but Kathy and I have been working together in the interim so things are you know going pretty well we will have a new podcast coming out that has to do with FBI profilers.

Honourable wait is that because you all were you know FBI profilers yeah.

See what I did there Jim i'm so smart I caught it I caught the it's amazing wow francey that's about the maximum capacity I believe that we could get from you but wait today we're going to talk about a case that we talk about a little bit before everybody's been talking about it because.

It's probably the biggest serial killer case that we have in quite a bit of time and that is the Gilgo Beach murders and if we go back to 2010 there was a body found of skeletonized body found of a young woman who was a sex worker who went missing she was found partially buried and wrapped in burlap.

On the shore of Long Island known as Gilgo Beach and then a short while later the remains of three other women were also found in the area and then an additional five women no sorry four more women one man and one toddler were also recovered in the same area.

And this is these are cases that really disturb the area obviously the entire state of New York and the entire east coast and fact the entire country was disturbed by what they discovered then.

And it was quite a bit of time before they made this arrest recently well Jim it was this year you're right I mean it was like 13 years it took.

Yeah well and that's not unusual I know sometimes it takes time I'm not criticizing the investigation which I certainly want to talk to you two experts about but just so Kathy knows Kathy we talked about this case on our podcast last week.

And I'm sure our listeners have heard it Jim did a profile for the New York Times in 2011 I think it was Jim right and since the offender was arrested it turns out Jim's profile was like frighteningly accurate I mean really really just dead on.

With the pro you know who the person was that's been arrested this this offender in New York who live very close by the scene of these these this body recovery sites and so.

We talked a lot Kathy about Jim's profile of the offender but as the last couple of weeks have unfolded we've been learning more and more about him and so I wanted to get your perspective.

Because we talked last week Jim and I did just the two of us about his profile of the offender and and you know why he thought the profile made sense and given the facts that Jim was given at the time which was not all the facts but enough facts.

And what I want to talk to you Kathy is about something that that I find weirdly fascinating you know in college I wrote a paper serial killers versus spree killers I know I'm weird I was interested in that sort of stuff.

Finally, I've been interested in the topic for so long and what I've never really been able to understand and that's what you guys you know obviously had to be able to understand is motivation so Jim and I didn't really talk about this last week we talked about who he thought the offender was and who it turned out the offender actually was.

But what I'd like to ask you because you have just as much experience with profiling is can you help our listeners understand sort of motivation I think that's the hardest thing for those of us who aren't murderers and serial killers or those who find that right yeah to that you know of to understand because we can't imagine doing those horrible things to another human so.

...