And here's the thing I think we would definitely agree on Jesse, is you see, you know, it's like, I'm, I look at some of these people and I'm like, well, I'm glad that person's in the president's ear. I'm glad that person has access to the president to give him advice and godly counsel. But you got this other person, and now I'm seeing these two people kind of work together. And it's like that's what's kind of scary to me.

And that's when I say, look, if you're willing to put biblical doctrine asideers podcast. I'm Elisa Childers, and it's always my goal to help equip Christians to identify the core beliefs of historic Christianity, discern its counterfeits, and proclaim the gospel with clarity, kindness,

and truth. And I have just had a fascinating conversation with my friend Jesse Westwood.

Now, Jesse and his wife, Callie, have been on the podcast before to talk about their experience

of coming out of the new apostolic Reformation or NR. And I've done lots of episodes on the dangers

and my concerns with the new Apostolic Reformation. In fact, Jesse and Kelly's story is featured

in the newest American Gospel movies, which you can go to AmericanGospel.com. I want to strongly

recommend that you watch this latest installment called The Spirit and

Fire. And there are several episodes. I'm featured in a few of those, but their story is

featured primarily in one of the episodes. And it is so valuable, I think, especially if you're

trying to understand the new Apostolic Reformation and the dangers of that theology. Now, the reason I had Jesse on the

show today is because after the assassination of Charlie Kirk, I think a lot of us Christians are

thinking more deeply, perhaps. If you're like me, you are. You're thinking more deeply about

what should be a Christian's attitude and posture toward political engagement. And so after the assassination

of Charlie Kirk, Jesse and I were talking about a few different things, and it became apparent

that we were thinking about things a little bit differently. So in today's discussion,

you're going to hear quite a bit of disagreement, but I wanted to have this conversation public,

because we could have easily just had this conversation privately. But there's a few reasons I wanted to bring it to you publicly.

The first reason is because Jesse and I really share some similarity in our background.

And so Jesse came out of the New Apostolic Reformation.

I also went to a church that got fully infiltrated and taken over by the new apostolic reformation. So we both

had that experience of seeing the very real fall out in real people's lives of this theology.

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