333: How to sleep better with Lorna MacDonald
The Scummy Mummies Podcast
Ellie Gibson and Helen Thorn
4.7 • 1.3K Ratings
🗓️ 7 April 2026
⏱️ 56 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
What's going on in our brains when we can't sleep? What if you find it easy to drop off, but wake up a few hours later? How does the perimenopause play a part? Joining us to answer all these questions is the brilliant Lorna MacDonald.
Lorna is a neuroscience-based hypnotherapist and coach who's been helping Ellie get a bit more shut-eye. She explains why so many middle-aged women struggle with sleep, and gives us lots of practical ideas for improving things.
We talk about the stress bucket, and the difference between slutty and classy dopamine. There's some chat about alcohol and hormonal change. Lorna tells us the story of how she came back from burnout, and we talk about what it is, how to recognise the first signs, and what we can do to manage it.
Plus: why it's OK to be selfish, and how it can actually make you happier.
For more from Lorna, including how to get in touch with her and pricing, thehypnotherapynook.com or follow her on Instagram @thehypnotherapynook.
Helen's book "How to Face Big Change and Come Back Stronger" is now out and all about how women rebuild their lives after big shitty life things, it is uplifting, funny and brutally honest. You can buy a copy here. https://lnk.to/howtofacebigchange
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Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | Hello, scumbags, this is the scummy mummies podcast. |
| 0:08.2 | With your hosts, Ellie Gibson and Helen Thorne. |
| 0:16.6 | Hello and welcome to the scummy mummies podcast. |
| 0:19.2 | It's me, Ellie Gibson. |
| 0:20.1 | And it's me, Helen Thorne. Yes, it is. Where are we, Ely? We're in Scotland. Shut up. I knew it felt different. It doesn't look like your house. It doesn't actually look like Scotland because the sun is shining. But we are here in Edinburgh. We had a lovely show last night, didn't we? Oh, sensational. We were at the monkey barrel, and it was like being in a barrel. We were in a tiny little room, but, oh, the last were big, the love was there. Lorna, you were there. We haven't even introduced it yet. No. Sorry, sorry, we're just, as usual, we're just talking about ourselves. Exactly. And not our wonderful guests. Lorna MacDonald, welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much. It's amazing to be here. Oh, we're very pleased to have you, aren't we, Helen? Absolutely. In your house. Indeed, with the sun shining. Oh, wow, beautiful. I mean, you couldn't pick a more beautiful day. So thank you for organising that, Lorna. Much appreciated. |
| 1:11.7 | Really is sunshine on Leith. |
| 1:13.1 | Are we in Leith? |
| 1:13.8 | No, we're the other side of tone. |
| 1:15.5 | The opposite of Leigh. |
| 1:16.4 | But it's sunshine on Scotland's basically the same thing. |
| 1:19.0 | Yes, exactly. |
| 1:20.5 | Yes, lovely to see you, Lorna. |
| 1:22.4 | So you and I met quite recently, Lorna, on the internet. |
| 1:26.0 | Not like that, Helen. |
| 1:26.9 | Don't make that face. Don't make that face. We've all been done that rabbit hole before. Anyway, you've met on the internet. How did this come about? Well, we're members of a Facebook group, a sort of women's Facebook group where women ask each other, you know, all sorts of things, what's used to buy, how life insurance works, what they think about Palestine. Everything, really. Everything and anything. Just like chats. Just like chats. Women's stuff. And I saw Lorna had commented on a post about sleep. I can't remember what the post was about. Or was it just someone moaning about it. Yeah. Somebody was really struggling with sleep. Yeah. Yes. And we've noticed, haven't we, Helen? |
| 2:01.2 | I mean, you and I have both struggled with sleep. |
| 2:03.1 | That seems to be a common theme in contemporary womanhood. |
| 2:08.1 | Yes, yeah. |
| 2:08.9 | And recently I did just like a random shout-out on our Instagram page going, |
| 2:15.2 | hey, perimenopausal women, how do you get to sleep? |
| 2:18.5 | And we've had hundreds and hundreds of women commenting, going, I'm doing this, or, you know, |
| 2:24.2 | you've got to have progesterone before bed or magnesium or I've done this, that. |
... |
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