Hi, I'm Sarah and this is the Squiggly Careers podcast.

Every week we share ideas and tools that we hope will help you to navigate both the obstacles

but also make the most of the opportunities that come our way in Squiggly careers.

This week is one of our Ask the Expert episodes where I'll be talking to Rob Joffey about leadership.

So we're taking on a big topic this week.

Rob is the co-author of one of the leadership books that I rate and recommend most frequently.

There are lots of books written about leadership, but there are very few that I think stand the test of time.

And Rob and Garras definitely does.

And it's called Why Should Anyone Be Led by You?

Together with Rob, I talk about how to approach answering what can seem like a very confronting question.

Why should anyone be led by you? The critical difference between leadership and management.

And we even borrow some brilliance along the way

from social anthropologists, which surprised me and something I very much enjoyed. I've been hoping

to talk to Rob for a long time. I've actually been taught by Rob, not that I expected him to remember,

when I did a program at London Business School. So I had met him before very briefly. And he's

always been on my list as someone who I hope all of our listeners will find really helpful to

listen to and learn from. So I hope you found the conversation useful and I'll be back at the end

to point you to some really helpful resources and to say goodbye.

So Rob, thank you so much for joining me today on the Squiggly Careers podcast. I'm really looking forward to our conversation together. It's very nice to be

with you, Sarah, and I'm looking forward to it too. So we're going to dive straight in because

what has really attracted me to your work and the work that you've written and researched over the years is it all started with this very propelling and I think in some ways provocative question that's the title of a brilliant HBR article that you wrote and then a book which is that you suggest all leaders should be able

to respond to this question, why should anyone be led by you? And I just wondered with this

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