3: 3. Post-Revolution Collapse, Failed Statehood, and the Holodomor Following the collapse of the Russian and Austro-Hungarian Empires after World War I, Ukrainians sought independence. The Ukrainian People's Republic emerged from the Russian collapse as a d

The John Batchelor Show

John Batchelor

Books, Society & Culture, News, Arts

4.5 • 2.8K Ratings

🗓️ 20 October 2025

⏱️ 11 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

3. Post-Revolution Collapse, Failed Statehood, and the Holodomor Following the collapse of the Russian and Austro-Hungarian Empires after World War I, Ukrainians sought independence. The Ukrainian People's Republic emerged from the Russian collapse as a democratic state with liberal policies. However, it quickly collapsed internally, as its bureaucrats were heavily Russified, and externally, as various Russian armies (communist, monarchist, or liberal) immediately invaded, united by the belief that Ukraine must be part of Russia. Separately, the West Ukrainian People's Republic was defeated and incorporated into Poland. Later, Stalin, fearing internal Ukrainian dissent and needing grain exports for military modernization, implemented forced collectivization. This led to the purposeful famine of the Holodomor (1932-1933), resulting in deaths of an estimated 3.5 to 5 million people. This tragedy served Stalin's goal of breaking the backbone of the Ukrainian peasantry to secure the region before World War II devastated the landscape.

Transcript

Click on a timestamp to play from that location

0:00.0	This is CBS I in the World. I'm John Batcht, visiting with Professor Eugene Finkel.
0:10.1	His new book is intent to destroy Russia's 200-year quest to dominate Ukraine.
0:15.4	If you are puzzled these last years of the Ukrainian-Russian war, it's okay because the Russians and the Ukrainians have
0:23.0	been puzzled for centuries, maybe a thousand years. Are you Ukrainian? Are you Russian? Along comes
0:29.8	Lenin and his acolytes. Lenin is a Russian nationalist. I understand he talks about Marx. He talks
0:36.8	about communism. He's a Russian nationalist. His understand he talks about Marx. He talks about communism. He's a Russian nationalist.
0:39.9	His attitude towards Ukraine is the same as every other Russian in the middle classes, well-educated.
0:46.4	He's been to Europe. He believes that Ukraine is little Russia. So Lenin's Revolution,
0:52.3	1917, and then the Civil War begins, 1921.
0:57.0	And Ukraine is caught up.
0:59.2	But at the same time, the professor introduces us to two versions of the Ukrainian state.
1:06.6	We'll call one the UNR and one the ZUNR.
1:10.5	Who were they?
1:11.2	What were they?
1:11.8	What were their ambitions, professor?
1:14.3	Right.
1:14.7	So, 1917, 1918 empires collapsed the German Empire, but more importantly for our story,
1:22.3	the Russian Empire and the also Hungarian Empire.
1:25.2	When the Russian Empire collapses and the communists come to power in St. Petersburg,
1:33.5	people in Ukraine have other ideas. They don't want to be ruled by communists and they don't want to be treated like Russians anymore.
1:45.5	So they decide to go their own way and out of the collapse of the Russian Empire.
1:51.5	They create their own state, the so-called Ukrainian People's Republic,
	...

Please login to see the full transcript.

Previous episode | Next episode

Disclaimer: The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from John Batchelor, and are the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Tapesearch.

Generated transcripts are the property of John Batchelor and are distributed freely under the Fair Use doctrine. Transcripts generated by Tapesearch are not guaranteed to be accurate.