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Okay, so this has been fabulous.

Let's switch really quickly to your experience with Mormon archaeologists.

And basically, I'm curious to know if you've ever pulled these guys aside and asked,

man, do you believe this stuff?

And how they reconcile it.

I'm curious to know if you've ever seen a believing archaeologist,

believing Mormonologist, lose his faith or if you've seen nuanced views of the book of Mormon.

And then finally, wasn't there a famous Mormon who wrote a book about ancient American archaeology

who then stopped believing in the church and left?

So talk about all that to the extent that you've got the story.

Of course, this is a very tender subject.

With archaeologists who are Mormons, a very tender subject.

I had many, many discussions over the years with Garathlo who was a really good friend.

I still respect him enormously.

You know, one of the great people of New World Archaeology.

He started out when I first met him that time when Doc Kitter told me to go over

and look at those excavations in campus.

...