269. The Biology of Good and Evil | Frans de Waal

The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast

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Education, Science, Society & Culture

4.6 • 34.5K Ratings

🗓️ 11 July 2022

⏱️ 106 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Frans de Waal is an acclaimed Dutch primatologist and ethologist. He's written and published numerous books, including 'Chimpanzee Cultures,' 'Are We Smart Enough to Know How Smart Animals Are?', 'Mam's Last Hug,' and his most recent book, 'Different: Gender Through the Eyes of a Primatologist.' In this episode, Frans de Waal and I discuss a number of things, including the instinct for reciprocal cooperation, the characteristics of sex and gender, the necessity of play, reconciliation, how we mismeasure animals, and much more. Thanks for watching. —Links— Read Frans de Waal's books: https://www.amazon.com/Frans-De-Waal/e/B000APOHE0%3Fref=dbs_a_mng_rwt_scns_share —Chapters— [0:00] Intro [6:44] A Background in Ethology [9:46] The Social Organization of Chimpanzees [12:11] Supporters Make Chimps Dominant [15:56] An Instinct for Reciprocal Cooperation [17:37] Female Choice in Sexual Selection [22:45] Biology's Victorian Beginnings [24:37] Bonobo's Collective Dominance [27:42] Characteristics of Sex and Gender [31:02] Preferences in Types of Play [33:26] The Origin of Antisocial Behavior [35:43] The Necessity of Play [37:13] How Play Teaches Self Control [41:01] Self Socialization [46:18] Interference in Boys' Development [51:34] The Behavior of Reconciliation [57:29] Differences in Male and Female Aggression [59:35] Peace Making vs. Peace Keeping [1:01:59] The Conundrum of Compassion [1:03:11] Competitiveness In Males and Females [1:06:20] Disliking the Facts of Sex Differences [1:11:36] How We Mismeasure Animals [1:21:24] Anthropomorphizing Animals [1:23:26] Consciousness in Animals [1:27:15] Sentience [1:31:16] Self Consciousness and Embellishment [1:35:50] Unconscious Olfaction [1:38:53] Problems with Virtualizing the World [1:40:41] Frans de Waal's Intellectual Heroes [1:42:20] Closing Comments #fransdewaal #reciprocity #primatology #jordanpeterson #animalbehavior #dominance // SUPPORT THIS CHANNEL // Newsletter: https://mailchi.mp/jordanbpeterson.co... Donations: https://jordanbpeterson.com/donate // COURSES // Discovering Personality: https://jordanbpeterson.com/personality Self Authoring Suite: https://selfauthoring.com Understand Myself (personality test): https://understandmyself.com // BOOKS // Beyond Order: 12 More Rules for Life: https://jordanbpeterson.com/Beyond-Order 12 Rules for Life: An Antidote to Chaos: https://jordanbpeterson.com/12-rules-... Maps of Meaning: The Architecture of Belief: https://jordanbpeterson.com/maps-of-m... // LINKS // Website: https://jordanbpeterson.com Events: https://jordanbpeterson.com/events Blog: https://jordanbpeterson.com/blog Podcast: https://jordanbpeterson.com/podcast // SOCIAL // Twitter: https://twitter.com/jordanbpeterson Instagram: https://instagram.com/jordan.b.peterson Facebook: https://facebook.com/drjordanpeterson Telegram: https://t.me/DrJordanPeterson All socials: https://linktr.ee/drjordanbpeterson

Transcript

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0:00.0	Welcome to episode 269 of the Jordan B. Peterson podcast. I'm McCarrot Peterson.
0:06.1	In this episode, Dad spoke with Franz DeWall, a Dutch primatologist and the
0:10.8	ethylologist. Throughout his career, DeWall has published numerous books about the complexity
0:16.1	of animal behavior. His latest book, Different, published in 2022, looks at sex differences in humans,
0:22.8	chimpanzees, and bano bones. Dad was really excited to chat with Franz DeWall because he's had
0:28.0	a great influence on his thought. Together, the two of them discussed the instinct for reciprocal
0:32.8	cooperation, the necessity of play, reconciliation, how we mismeasure animals, and more. Thank you
0:39.9	for listening. I hope you enjoy this episode.
0:43.9	Hello, everyone. I am really thrilled, even more than usual, because I'm usually thrilled with
1:00.6	my guests to be talking to Dr. Franz DeWall. Dr. DeWall is a Dutch American biologist and
1:10.8	primatologist known for his work on the behavior and social intelligence of our closest biological
1:16.9	relatives. He is C.H. Canva Professor Imeritis at Emory University and Distinguished Professor
1:23.3	Emeritis at Utrecht University. His scientific work has been published in hundreds of technical
1:29.5	articles in journals such as Science, Nature, Scientific American, and Outlet Specialized in
1:36.4	Animal Behavior. I should point out that generally speaking in a scientist's career, even a single
1:41.5	publication in a journal such as Science or Nature, can be the pinnacle of a career, and to do that
1:48.4	multiple times is pretty rare. So, Dr. DeWall is a scientist who's in many ways in the league of his
1:56.2	own. His popular books translated into more than 20 languages have made him one of the world's
2:01.2	most visible primatologists and scientists. I would say his latest two books of many, and I'll
2:06.7	mention some others, are Momma's last hug, Norton 2019, and Different Gender Through the Eyes of
2:14.0	Her Primatologist, which was published by Norton in 2022. He's been elected to the U.S. National
2:19.6	Academy of Sciences, as well as the Royal Netherlands Academy of Arts and Sciences. In 2007,
	...

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