I think it's really important to just to get at this idea of the scapegoat mechanism becoming less effective because of society's concern for victims.

You know, Gerard would say our concern for victims is the universal value that now unites the world.

Pretty much who will you ever find that says that you shouldn't be concerned with victims or you know people being

injustice right um in gerard says this is really the fruit of the revelation of the

scapegoat mechanism we've now seen something that we can never unsee and it sort of

led over 2000 years it led over a very long period of time to that becoming the most

important value in the world,

to the point that there's now memetic rivalry over who can be the best victim, because nothing is,

nothing confers more status and power than becoming a good victim. It's a weird, weird,

paradox, an inversion of like the true nature of Christianity.

Yeah. of like the true nature of Christianity. This is Jonathan Peugeot.

Welcome to the symbolic world.

Hello, everybody.

I am here with Luke Bridges.

We've been trying to meet for months, actually.

We finally were able to meet.

He is the author of wanting the power of memetic desire in everyday life and an expert on René Girard.

And, you know, he's been following what I've been doing as well in seeing me talk about sacrifice and René Girard.

So I'm definitely excited to see, you know, what kind of insight he can bring to us. So, Luke, it's good to meet you.

Tell us a bit about what brought you to

thinking about Girard and Mimetic Desire today. Yeah, well, I'm glad we finally got to make this

happen, Jonathan. I've been following your work for a while, and it was a consolation for me in the dark

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