A company should have beliefs, customs that make it what it is. If you go to work from a company and they're like, but we're fanatical about customers and we'll do anything for our customers. And somebody who like hates being like that might say, gosh, these people are like a cult. If you mean they are really, really into treating customers well and they're kind of fanatical about it, it might feel that way to somebody that doesn't like that culture,

but that doesn't make it a cult. And that's the thing that's so dangerous is that people will

immediately call something in a negative term just because they have a strong culture. And by the way,

the definition of a company with a strong culture will repel people who don't fit that culture.

Welcome to At the Table, a podcast that lives at the intersection between culture, leadership, teamwork, and organizational health. I'm Pat Lynch-O-Nchona, your host, joined by Cody Thompson, my co-host. What are we talking about today, Cody? Cult versus Culture. That's right. Cult versus Culture. I don't know how this hit my radar screen, but I remember years and years ago, Jim Collins in his book built to last, him and Jerry Porras wrote about great companies have strong cultures. And they referred to them as cult-like. And I think they did that to really get people's attention. And then over the years, I've learned about cults. There's all kinds of documentaries, and you've probably seen them all, Cody, because you love documentaries. And I realized that it's really

important to understand the difference between having a strong culture and a culture being a cult.

And what's interesting about that is I was going to call this podcast, is your company a cult, just to get

people's attention for clickbait? The answer is almost certainly no. There's very few

companies that actually act like a cult, because a cult has a very specific definition.

We're going to talk about that. But it's really worth understanding this. Frankly, most companies don't have a strong culture at all.

And we just kind of want to differentiate between what a cult and a culture is. We thought this was some interesting brain candy and it's something we can apply in our organizations. Does that make sense, Cody? Yeah, I love that you said, you know, the answer is probably not because no one's going to wake up

tomorrow and feel like, oh, no, was I at a company that was a cult this whole time? Because that's

not how it works, right? It takes a ton of intentionality to build a culture. And very few companies

are sort of anemic in culture. They're not over indexing on culture. And so that maybe that's

sort of a nuance we can explore. Yeah. And I think people use that word cult. And there's other

words in society that people use carelessly. Like if your manager does something, if he,

if he makes a decision or she makes a decision that's kind of selfish, people will go,

she's a narcissist.

It's like, well, there's actually a definition of what that is.

And it's a very serious thing to be narcissistic and to throw that around.

And sometimes a culture and a company will be very strong and somebody won't like it.

And they'll go, this place is a cult.

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