#266: See What You Made Me Do with Jess Hill, Part 1

Real Crime Profile

Real Crime Profile / Wondery

True Crime, Society & Culture, Exhibit C, Documentary

4.2 • 10.5K Ratings

🗓️ 29 July 2020

⏱️ 49 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Laura, Jim and Lisa interview Australian investigative journalist and award winning author Jess Hill about her book 'See What You Made Me Do.'

In this episode, we discuss Luke Batty's case which was the starting point for Jess to write the book and the coercive control law Laura successfully campaigned for in England and Wales. Jess deconstructs Albert Biderman's model of coercion used on prisoners of war in North Korea and we talk about how these are the same tactics that are used by what Laura calls 'domestic terrorists' all across the world, as well as unpick how women feel compelled the 'fix' the relationship and the perpetrator.

Jess has been writing and researching about domestic abuse since 2014. Before that she was a producer for ABC Radio, a Middle East correspondent for The Global Mail, and an investigative journalist for Background Briefing. Jess was listed in Foreign Policy's top 100 women to follow on Twitter, and also as one of 30 most influential people under 30 by Cosmopolitan magazine.

Jess's reporting has won two Walkley awards, an Amnesty International award and three Our Watch awards.

The Australian version of SEE WHAT YOU MADE ME DO is currently available in stores, Audible and Amazon. It will be available in the UK on August 27 and USA on September 1 2020. You can follow Jess on Twitter @jessradio

#HisNameWasLukeBatty

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Transcript

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0:00.0	Hey, Prime Members, you can listen to Real Crime Profile ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the app today.
0:07.0	Hey, lovely RCP listeners. Thank you so much for tuning into this very important series with my colleague Jess Hill,
0:14.0	who is an investigative journalist and the award-winning author of the book See What You Made Me Do.
0:19.0	This is such an important conversation that I've wanted to have for some time,
0:23.0	because so many colleagues and friends have said, when you and Jess speak, I would love to be a fly on the wall.
0:29.0	So we made it happen. Jess got up super early in Australia. I stayed up to talk to her later at night,
0:35.0	and Jim and Lisa were in the middle of their day in LA. So we apologise for any audio issues.
0:40.0	And I also just wanted to preface it with a trigger warning as we are talking about a number of
0:46.0	distressing yet preventable murders and cases. But the one thing I guarantee is that this series
0:54.0	would change the way that you see domestic abuse forever. So without further ado, here's the episode.
1:00.0	Why doesn't she live? Well, if it was me, I would do this, and if it was me, I would do that. And I would never put it with this.
1:06.0	And I'd never put it with that. So we spend a lot of time judging and critiquing victims.
1:11.0	And we need to catch ourselves, because what we really should be doing is discussing the pervert writer
1:18.0	and discussing why would the perpetrator exert violence? Why would he behave in such a way?
1:26.0	We should be discussing his behaviour and his violence rather than what could or should be done from the victim's perspective.
1:35.0	So when we consider, when Luke was murdered, there would be many people, and indeed there were.
1:42.0	So why didn't she stop it? Why did she let him have access to Luke? Why did she do this? Why did she do that?
1:50.0	How dare they say those things? How dare they assume that anyone could love your child more than you do as its mother?
1:59.0	If anyone considered the Tuzlooc's mum, I would have done anything in the world to protect him and I did for 12 years.
2:10.0	So to assume you could do a better job, to critique me for doing this or doing that and what you would have done and what you would have done,
2:19.0	there was one person at fault there, there was one person to blame.
2:25.0	And there was one person who had a choice on that night and he killed his son as an act of power and revenge to make me suffer for the rest of my life.
	...

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