262. Beyond Order: Montreal Lecture | Jonathan Pageau

The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast

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Education, Science, Society & Culture

4.6 • 34.5K Ratings

🗓️ 16 June 2022

⏱️ 106 minutes

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Summary

We had the honor of having our dear friend Jonathan Pageau host this Beyond Order lecture in Montreal on May 23rd, 2022. Jonathan opens the show by describing how he first heard (and subsequently met) Jordan. This event, then, serves as a continuation of the conversations they first had. Throughout this hour-and-a-half-long event, Dr. Peterson and Jonathan Pageau discuss perception, symbolism, values, and the relationship between perception and the cognitive scientist’s attempts to understand consciousness. —Links— Check out Jonathan Pageau’s YouTube channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UCtCTSf3UwRU14nYWr_xm-dQ Websites: https://thesymbolicworld.com (speaking) https://pageaucarvings.com (carving) https://orthodoxartsjournal.org (writing) —Chapters— 0:00 — Intro 4:55 — Dr. Peterson enters the stage 8:00 — Perception, Cognitive Science, and the problem of bodyless AI 11:30 — The visual cliff experiment & perceiving the world 18:30 — The awe of infinity & complexity of the Heavens 21:00 — Awe, imitation, & why humans celebrate 28:00 — The role of sacrifice & delaying gratification 32:00 — Egyptian gods & ancient symbolism 36:00 — Pyramids vs. mountains in The Bible 44:00 — The cost of not aiming properly 52:30 — Bottom-up vs. top-down conceptualizations of the world 57:00 — Sam Harris 1:05:00 — Why the Diversity, Inclusivity, and Equity types are taking on STEM 1:10:00 — Is it possible to create values from scratch? Nietzsche, Freud, & Jung 1:16:00 — Why go to church? 1:22:00 — Q&A #Perception #BeyondOrder #JonathanPageau #Symbolism #Values #SamHarris

Transcript

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0:00.0	Welcome to episode 262 of the JBP Podcast. I'm Michaela Peterson. This episode is a lecture
0:07.2	dad did in Montreal with Jonathan Pazzo as moderator. This was a unique conversation. They
0:13.8	discussed the problem of perception, the feeling of awe, the Bible, why going to church matters,
0:19.5	and much more. I hope you enjoy this episode.
0:41.8	And now please welcome tonight's host from the symbolic world podcast Jonathan Pazzo.
1:02.3	Welcome everybody. I am very excited because for the first time Jordan Peterson is in Montreal,
1:08.8	it is the first time that he's speaking here. Jordan has lived here. He lived here for eight years.
1:13.6	He was at McGill and he loves this city and so it's really great to have everybody here to
1:19.5	listen to him speak. I want to rewind you in my life to 2015. This is before Jordan Peterson was
1:29.2	famous. He was a psychologist at the University of Toronto and I was driving down the road and I was
1:35.6	listening to the CBC. I don't know. I was just getting my son at his friend's house on one evening
1:43.0	and there's this conference on the CBC and here's this professor. He's saying things that I am
1:51.3	not used to hearing on the CBC. The way that he was speaking, the references that he was making,
2:01.1	he was going through Solzenitsky and Milton and Dostoevsky. He was talking about the nature of reality
2:08.5	using words like logos which you usually don't hear on the radio. I was really surprised. I was
2:17.6	very surprised because he was saying things that were connecting to something that I was already
2:24.1	thinking and this is an experience that I've heard many people say about Jordan's work,
2:29.3	which is that when they hear him, he's expressing something that they had on the tip of their mind
2:35.5	that they could almost see that they could kind of perceive and Jordan is able to bring it together
2:40.9	for them in a more succinct and very powerful way. I was so excited that I was hitting the steering
2:48.9	wheel. I was screaming in the car. I am not like that. This is not usually the way that I act. I was
2:54.5	so excited that I went to get my son and all I could think about was what I heard on the radio.
	...

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