Welcome to the Making Sense Podcast. This is Sam Harris. Just a note to say that if you're

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Today I'll be speaking with Jocco Willink. Jocco is a former Navy SEAL. He was a Navy SEAL

for 20 years and commanded a unit of SEALs in the Battle of Ramadi, which is often acknowledged

to be the toughest battle in our war in Iraq. And the unit he commanded became the most

decorated special operations unit in that war. Jocco is also a black belt in Brazilian

Jiu-Jitsu and really is just a rare authority on violence, its application in the world,

the practical reality of it, the ethical imperative of it in certain circumstances. So it

was a great privilege to speak to Jocco. I found our two hours together extremely useful,

and I hope you feel the same way. I now give you Jocco Willink.

So I'm here with Jocco Willink. Jocco, thanks for coming on the podcast. Thank you for

having me on.

First of all, congratulations on everything you are exploding. Your book has exploded,

your podcast, the Jocco podcast has exploded. All in a very quick succession. So the world

has decided it needs more Jocco. That's awesome. I'm very happy for you.

It's interesting to watch unfold. Like most people, I first heard of you on the Tim

Ferris podcast, and then you very shortly after that did one with Joe Rogan. And I would

...