You know that you wrote a book about here first and that's of course where you're

at comes from but then you just like moved into this whole new world. Were you doing that type of work that you know more

spiritual inner work were you doing that privately at that point and then you just

decide to go public with it or how did that all unfold? that the fear of death all started and didn't leave really it's been spinning inside since I was

very young I started reading about you know like out-of-body experiences and meditation when I was seven, you know, I was ten in the

New Age aisle at the library, just so many questions I was raised Catholic and the answers

weren't up to my standards, you know, as far as like I just they left more questions and I'm like there must be answer somewhere and by college I was reading books about Buddhism and then right out of college, right out of

graduate school. I went to graduate school at UNC Chapel Hill. I had a friend

introduced me to the secret. That was the big thing at the time,

the law of attraction, which was kind of like for me a gateway drug into deeper

spirituality. So it felt like my curly nicky, the hair, natural hair success, came out of,

if you would have asked me 10, 12, 13 years ago, I would have said, oh, it was definitely the law of

attraction. But what I can see now, it was the law of awareness. You know, I was practicing

those things, you know, like affirmations, but I was really just becoming more and more aware of what was already here, you know, what was already there. I can look back on that now and see I was becoming aware of the silence and that's for me been key.

I just didn't know it.

I thought it was the words.

I thought it was the visualizations.

All those things that were like creating this beautiful life for me.

But there was a lot of suffering too,

a lot of suffering that was

tremendously needed

and it started with seemingly,

...