Wired.com presents the Geek's Guide to the Galaxy. And here is your host, David Barr-Kirtley.

Hello and welcome to episode 245 of Geek's Guide to the Galaxy.

Today on the show we'll be discussing gold farming and real money trade.

So we'll be talking about people who make real world's money by buying and selling goods

that exist only in video games. and I'm joined by two guests.

So first up we've got Julian De Bell.

He's written about technology and gaming for media outlets such as the New York Times magazine

and Wired and he's also the author of the books My Tiny Life, Crime and Passion in Virtual World,

and Play Money, or How I Quit My Day Job and Made Millions Trading Virtual Lute.

He also practices law as an associate in the technology transactions

practice at the global law firm Mayor Brown LLP.

So Julian, welcome to the show.

Thank you.

It's great to be here, Dave.

And also joining us today is Marcus Eichenberry,

aka Markey Dragon.

For the past 20 years, he's been a major figure

in the virtual goods industry

and has operated businesses within many online games,

including Ultima Online and World of Warcraft.

He also has a popular YouTube channel with over 60,000 subscribers, where he creates content

and drives sales for games such as Yvonne Line and Trout of the Avatar.

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