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People I (Mostly) Admire

24. Amaryllis Fox: “What Does This New Version of Mutually Assured Destruction Look Like?”

People I (Mostly) Admire

Freakonomics Radio + Stitcher

Society & Culture

4.61.9K Ratings

🗓️ 17 April 2021

⏱️ 58 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

She spent nearly a decade as an undercover C.I.A. operative working to prevent terrorism. More recently, she hosted The Business of Drugs on Netflix. Amaryllis Fox — now Kennedy — explains why intelligence work requires empathy, and she soothes Steve’s fears about weapons of mass destruction.

Transcript

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0:00.0

Hey there, it's Stephen Dupner, Steve Levitt's Freakonomics co-author and the host of Freakonomics Radio.

0:11.5

I wanted to let you know about a new podcast we've just added to the Freakonomics Radio network.

0:16.8

It's called Sudir Breaks the Internet. The host is Sudir Venkatesh, a sociologist at Columbia

0:23.3

University, who spent the first couple decades of his career embedding himself with drug gangs and

0:29.1

gun runners, sex workers. You may remember Sudir from the first Freakonomics book, if you ever read it.

0:35.6

Sudir wrote an amazing book himself called Gang Leader for a Day. That book called The Attention

0:41.6

of a guy named Mark Zuckerberg, who was running a company called Facebook, and that is how Sudir

0:47.2

Venkatesh, Ivy League sociologist, chronicler of the criminal underworld, suddenly found himself

0:53.5

in Silicon Valley, working at Facebook. He spent three years there and then another two at Twitter.

1:00.6

Both companies wanted him to apply the tools of sociology to better understand their virtual

1:07.4

communities, but especially to address things like hate speech, bullying, and any plots that might

1:14.3

lead to, say, an insurrection at the U.S. Capitol. Sudir Breaks the Internet is a new show about the

1:21.1

people who create and run our digital universe. The massive promise and the massive problems

1:28.6

that often ensue. You can get it now on any podcast app that's Sudir, SUDHIR, Breaks the Internet.

1:37.3

For a sneak peek, stick around at the end of this episode, and let us know what you think. We are at

1:42.7

RadioAtFreakonomics.com. Thanks.

1:50.2

When I was a kid, I had all sorts of wild fantasies about how my life would turn out.

1:55.6

I would become a secret agent working undercover for the CIA. I would have my own TV show.

2:01.1

I would marry into the Kennedy clan. Although none of those childhood dreams came true for me,

2:06.3

my guest today, Amrillis Fox, has done them all.

2:10.7

Welcome to People I Mostly Admire, with Steve Levitt.

2:17.0

Amrillis Fox spent nearly a decade working as a CIA operative, recounting her experiences

...

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