This is Jocco podcast number 234 with Echo Charles and me, Jocco Willink. Good evening, echo. Good evening.

So, I was working with some echelon front clients the other day talking about leadership and I was talking about the minimum use of force.

Have you heard that phrase before?

Yes, I have. So, we talk about it from sort of combative, tactical perspective, but I was talking about it from a leadership perspective.

Meaning that you want to lead, you want to lead most of the time with a minimum use of force. So, I want to do as little as I can to make you do what I want you to do.

That's a good rule of thumb to lead with. I was also thinking and this is you might, I don't know if you're going to find this funny, you might.

I was thinking about leaders being legit. Have you noticed I use the term legit?

Yes, I use it more now.

You've acquired it.

I've acquired it, yes.

And we know what it means, right? We use the term to mean like that's cool, but it's a little bit stronger, right?

Means kind of approved.

But then I was thinking about the source of that word, legitimate, because once again I was talking about leaders being legit and actually beyond that, leaders being legitimate leaders.

Think about that, right? Think about the difference in your mind when you think of a legitimate leader or someone that's an illegitimate leader.

There is a huge difference because when a leader is viewed as illegitimate, then they're not respected. They're not listened to.

If someone gets put into position, because they're the boss's favorite or because they backstabbed someone, right?

To get into that, to get that promotion, they're not going to be considered legitimate, a legitimate leader, and that hurts their ability to lead.

So as I was thinking about these two things, the minimum use of force and legitimacy.

And I recognize both those thoughts in my head from the counter insurgency manual FM3, tech 24.

Now, here's a little history behind this manual. When I arrived in Ramadi, this is the manual that I read when I arrived at Ramadi.

So what happened was I arrived in Ramadi, I went to an intel briefing.

During the intel briefing, there was this massive link diagram of all these bad guys, a bunch of them connected, how they were connected, who they were connected to.

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