This is the illusionist in which I, Helen Zoltzman, command language, put its hands where I can see him.

I'm Phoebe Judge, this is criminal illusionist.

I don't work.

That's Phoebe Judge from Criminal, which is a two-person operation.

My name is Lauren Spur, and I'm the co-creator of Criminal.

Now, criminal have a much more linguistically exacting job than most of us podcasters.

I can bandy words around Willie Nilly with very few likely repercussions,

but since they're talking about serious and often traumatic events in real people's lives,

if they're not careful, there could be significant emotional and legal consequences.

A lot of the topics in the shows that we bring up, you know, we are dealing with material

that, you know, the words that we're using can be very triggering and sensitive to some people,

and we do take it very seriously.

We argue over one word, and we go back and forth over one word so often.

I think every script, there's one word that born, once, or I want,

that the other one thinks is just wild, and we go back and forth and back and forth,

tracking it two different ways just to see, and it can just be about one word.

There's also a tricky linguistic balance to strike when reporting on crime at one end.

There's a style which is so dry and technical, it makes the story sound boring,

well boring, and there's also some danger of making it seem detached from the real damage it caused to people.

At the other end of the scale, there's crime reporting that is as flashy and sensational as fiction.

I hope we're never accused of sensationalizing a crime or a story or a person.

I think that we're very, maybe hyper aware of that, just because I think so often in crime reporting,

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