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We've kind of, to me, I thought this has been very healthy to get us into a position of sort of understanding that you guys are still having rich experiences,

emotional experiences. You are not closed off to those things. It's just simply a matter of a difference of interpretation.

So one of the listeners wrote in a question where he'd been, he'd listened to the William Bradshaw interview, the five-part interview that I've also very much enjoyed.

And he says, you know, the question was basically, how do you account for somebody like William Bradshaw, who's a scientist, hard to knock his credentials?

It's hard to knock his thinking and his, you know, his full-on embrace of science to the degree that science can interpret the world.

And yet he says, when it comes to some of the experiences about the Book of Mormon or difficulties of the DNA stuff or whatever, he says, you know, John,

somehow or other, my experience when I was at Harvard in which the Book of Mormon was confirmed to me, Trump's that, you know, it somehow puts science in its place.

It's a little bit of a back door at least. It's in second place to something that feels far more powerful to me than the reach of science.

What would you say in response to that? I think it's your turn, Tyson.

No, I think it's Randy's turn.

Oh, okay. Well, you guys go do that.

My thoughts might not be as fully developed as are. I'd like to hear what he has to say.

Okay. I think that, I mean, far be it for me to presume to get inside the head of William Bradshaw.

But there are, you know, there's tons of really smart informed people like Richard Bushman and William Bradshaw that still believe in the Mormon church.

I don't know what to what degree they do.

Or that something's there, quote, unquote, something something's there. But when William Bradshaw goes and actively campaigns against prop hate.

He's obviously falling outside the mainstream, true believing Mormon.

So in other words, yeah, he's trusting his experience over the, you know, the current light and knowledge of the leaders.

Right. And when you listen to the Bushman interview, John tries to pin this down on him.

And his answer is, look, I choose to live in a world where Joseph Smith is a prophet of God.

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